Wednesday, July 12, 2006

I double hot dog dare you...

I have stayed out of this debate because I enjoy hearing different perspectives ... even if most of them are written by cruel stupid misogynists. (Plus you guys have upped our daily readership by 300 people an hour, and I am a site meter whore, so it was fun having you).

However, if you are going to come onto this blog and talk shit: YOU HAVE TO READ OUR POSTS AND GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU BASH US!!!!

This is just fucking inaccurate (and fairly representative of the Tucker Max people's opinions):

Anonymous said... "All the fat people that have been posting are missing the point. The TMMB people are not pissed at you because you are fat. They (at least the majority), as well as myself, are mainly disgusted with the misinformation propagated so wholeheartedly by this website. Everyone deserves respect, fat people included. HOWEVER, it is a very well known and obvious fact that being fact is a health risk (which is why fat people are naturally more unattractive...evolutionary instincts within us all). A fat person that wants to lose weight might instead come to a site like this loaded with feel-goodisms for fatties and links to old/quack studies about losing weight being impossible.IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE. To the creators of this site, I dare you this. Since your mainfesto has come under a barrage of attacks (justified ones too -- evidenced because your fat supporters have been the ones resorting to the childish and inane arguments), take on a challenge to prove it. For a month, eat and exercise properly, and see how your "genetics" arguments fall apart. Any trainer (there are some extremely good ones on the TMMB) or decent nutrition website can guide you. Then post your results here for your entire fat community to see. "

Now, if you had bothered to read any of our hundreds of posts you would find that we do not engage in the propagation of misinformation. (I invite you to refute me with something we actually wrote, as opposed to our commenters).

We acknowledge that we would lose weight if we exercised more and ate less. Personally, I think that is true for most fat people. I also think it's true that most people end up gaining the weight back. I don't think we have ever even mentioned genetics.

No. We do not like being fat. And when we motivate ourselves, we will know what to do to lose weight. But if and when I lose weight had nothing to do with you, and you shouldn't feel morally superior to me because you are thin (and statistically, I'm sure a bunch of you are closeted fatties hidden by your computer screen and an avatar of a bodybuilder).

Some people who regularly comment here feel differently, but that's what a comment section is for: leaving your opinion.

The people on Tucker Max may all feel like they have to espouse Tuckerisms to be accepted into his online society, but he most likely thinks many of you are idiots and laughs that he can make money because you subscribe to his blatantly offensive way of life.

So, keep hating fatties if you want. I couldn't care less. But don't misrepresent us or make assumptions because you can't make your point without changing facts around or you couldn't be bothered to read a whole post...that's called lying and even Tucker doesn't like that.

131 comments:

sturdy_stock said...

Amen sister!

And happy early one year anniversary!

Anonymous said...

I was wondering when you guys were going to chime in. I totally agree. It seems like most of the Tucker people either hadn't read anything you wrote (which is all very funny), or they were reacting to your regular readers whom you have no control over. I'm gad you said something.

Anonymous said...

I am so jealous that you get so many readers. My blog get like 4 hits a week. But you both are better at expressing your ideas.

Miss Michele said...

I went to Tucker's site and posted this, which I will also be posting on my site.

Tucker and Friends,
Are you guys seriously bashing fat people feeling a little positive about themselves. Are you really giving fat people dieting advice? Are you really that mean? You have no idea how damaging your words can be.

Let me pose this to you: If someone were to follow your advice...and they lose over 50 lbs, 100 lbs, etc., would you accept them? Would you stand and cheer for them because they did what you suggested--what you recommended -- what you deem is right and just? Or would you see this person and their imperfect body albeit thin body, but imperfect, with loose skin and possibly a little embarrassment and shame thrown in the mix, and judge them?

Would you date a woman who had lost alot of weight? After all, it is your advice that we're all supposed to follow, right?

The world despises fat people. That's a given fact. The fat person themselves usually isn't a big fan of themselves either. It is healthier to be in a trim body. It is a wish of every fat person to be in a trimmer body so they can participate in life as you all do. You enjoy even the simplest things that fat people cannot.

And I know you say to yourselves in a just and righteous way: Damn right I enjoy my life and you fatties should just get on the treadmill and put down the fork! I don't know if I could ever demand a society of people to do something that with all the reports out there seem impossible to do. The right wing is full of Born Again Christians that are denouncing their homosexuality because the Bible says its wrong. We all know that if someone is homosexual, they really can't change that.

Don't misunderstand me; in a way the obese are lucky. We have a chance to change ourselves physically. We get the opportunity to build an internal life that is rich in texture because our outside life is limited not only by mobility but by society's disdain for us.

I'm not looking for sympathy and I wouldn't venture to change your viewpoints, but I wanted to place a sane and simple post to your forum because it seems your voices speak loudly here and I want to yell too.

I would like to just go off on you and your name "Tucker" and how ridiculous and similar it is to Tucker Carlson and how you must be a right wing homophobic asschunk, but I think I made my point.

Good night, and Good Luck.

By the way, you seem to be very concerned about the well-being of society, and I wanted to let you all know that in Darfur and Sudan people are dying everyday. Maybe you could focus all your forceful energy over there and find a solution for them.

Alice said...

They won't be able to refute your statements with anything you have written because you don't write any of the crap they are harping on.

I have read your bog for a long time and this is the first time I have even commented, but I felt the need to defend what you write because I find it to be immensely touching and relevant and honest.

And there is also a huge difference between your beliefs and your commenter's, but *shocker* not all fat people are the same! So I applaud that you welcome all opinions.

In summation, I love your blog. I read it everyday after the news sites, and the Tuck Max people with their fat bashing should go back to their sad pathetic little lives.

Anonymous said...

shut up fatty

Anonymous said...

shut up fucktard

Anonymous said...

I bet you love to give blow jobs, it's just like devouring a hot dog isn't it?

Anonymous said...

blow jobs by fat chicks are advantageous to the guy as well - he can admire the top of her head and not see her face.

truth_is_uncomfortable said...

fatty,

These guys OBVIOUSLY change facts around! Even Tucker doesn't like lies? Tucker is so sensitive about his lying that he has moderators delete posts that mention anything about his, um, embellishments.

These pathetic idiots are not worth any of the attention they have been receiving. They can't even handle the TRUTH, so what can you really expect from them?

emily pound said...

I have refrained from commenting until now because I didn't want to expend the wasted effort. But I'm really tired of these TM people. Leave. Get lost. Fuck off. We don't want you here.

Anonymous said...

Mooooo

Red...the whore with herpes? said...

You keep saying that you've lost weight, but you just gain it back. I've got an idea. Remove the word "diet" from your vocabulary, and go with "lifestyle change." If you eat healthy and exercise for a month and then lose weight, don't go throwing yourself a hot fudge sundae party.



And yeah, mooo....

Red...the whore with herpes? said...

Um...and yeah, Tucker actualyl didn't post in this thread so far. But nice. Way yo hate on people who aren't saying shit. That's real BIg of you...HAHAHA Love ya! Fatty.

Scootah said...

even if most of them are written by cruel stupid misogynists.

Main Entry: mi·sog·y·nist
function: noun
: one who hates women—compare

Source: Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

By and large, I get the sense that the response wouldn't be significantly different if you were a man. I don't think Misogynist really applies.

/just sayin

Laura said...

Normally, I like to come to this blog because the posts are witty, realistic, and relate to my life (most of the time). I even like to read the comments, because I like to see what other people thing. I think that this will be my last comment until these Tucker peoples go away. They detract from the whole spirit of the blog. (In my opinion of course.)

Laura said...

*think

LaDeeDa234 said...

The whole situation is kind of sad. I mean, one girl got attacked b/c of having a thyroid problem. She was basically accused of: 1)making it up to justify her fatness, 2) not making it up but not treating it as an excuse to stay fat, 3)causing the problem on her own because of her fatness.

The fact of the matter is, no matter why you are fat and no matter what you are doing to recitify the situation, there are some people in this world that will judge you based on what they see. In a few seconds of seeing you, they will assume that you are dirty, lazy, stupid, desparate. They will have no clue that the 200 lb woman in front of them just lost 50 lbs and in another year will lose another 50 lbs. They just assume that she is a hog and feel justified in treating her as less than human.

Trying to reason with them or point out the flaws in their reasoning is beyond pointless. They are like this because they have their own emotional baggage and insecurities with no other way to deal with them but to put people down. It's always better to feel good about yourself if you obsess about the flaws in other people.

Look at it this way. I read somewhere that close to 60% of Americans are obese. Add to that, the number of us who are overweight but don't qualify as obese. Add to THAT, the number of us who are a perfectly acceptable and healthy weight but that the TMx people still consider has "fat". That leaves a very small % of the population that they would consider as acceptable. This means that they must be very lonely people, and very lonely people do and say very sad things.

I say we all give the folks at TuckerMax a big, FAT, group hug, b/c it's obvious that they need one!

Red...the whore with herpes? said...

They will have no clue that the 200 lb woman in front of them just lost 50 lbs and in another year will lose another 50 lbs. They just assume that she is a hog and feel justified in treating her as less than human.

T-shirt idea: Yes I'm fat, but I lost 50lbs...cut me some slack...

Problem solved!


What came first, the chicken or the egg? We'll never know cause fatty ate 'em both! Ha!

Archangel said...

Jesus almighty.

I had no idea that obesity also caused stupidity.


I read comments from people defending this blog and I can't help but to wonder if they have any clue how dumb they make themselves look.

You accuse us of not reading this blog enough, and not knowing enough etc.
Well, yeez, like I need any serious background to understand that the bloggers are fat, don't care to lose their weight -(nobody cares about you failing to lose weight either, read more, write less, and put your mind to it - you can do anything, so stop writing bullshit and lose that weight) - and do nothing but try to be funny about their enourmous asses.

Well, you know what? Being fat is not funny, to us maybe, but I can't imagine making fun about myself when I'd weight 400 pounds.

This is denial, denial to accept that you are fat - so either do something about it, or shut up. Nobody wants to hear how you are fat, fail at life and write stupid stories about not fitting on the god damn bus.


And not only this, but at the same time you accuse us of being pitiful, having small lives and all that bullshit.
The TMMB is probably one of the most intelligent message boards in the internet today. Mostly because all the moderators are intelligent and all posters who lack any skill to write coherently, or funny are banned until they get their act together.

As a result, TMMB board is full of posts from people that know better, succeed at life no matter what they do and have more fun then most people ever will.

You view us a biggots and smallminded people with no lives, because you cannot believe that there are people in existence that actually do live lives like this.

You find it impossible that there are both males and females on the board who see nothing incredible in say getting/giving 3 blowjobs a day from/to fuckbuddies, having fun with sex, going out and getting into amazing adventures and so much more.

Well, guess what - these things do happen. And Tucker is not the only one that writes about these things. There are others, he is just the most famous.

You don't get to be the author of a bestselling book and the owner of the WORLDS second most visited website.(the first is Tuckers friend, Maddox, who would probably bash you even more then Tucker does).

There are literally millions, hundreds of millions of people visiting Tuckers and Maddox's websites, and you have something like 500? most of them from TMMB board anyway, at the moment.

So, do you really think that your completely pointless and illogical responses to our fair comments about you will stop us?
Or change how the world views you?

Seriously, if you want us to stop then stop making fun about your own stupidity. Stop promoting it to others and start living a life in a way that is not unhealty and just god damn dumb.


And please, don't even try to approach me with your fat group hug, we don't need your fat fake falsely directed symphathy, but you do need our harsh, cold, but honest critizism.


I don't even live in America, but I can't help but to try to stop this fat bullshit before it reaches my country.

emily pound said...

why don't you go give tucker the blowjob you so obviously want to give him, asshole from oz? oh, sorry ... you've already been on your knees a hundred times. move on to his buddy then, get busy

Anonymous said...

this is all so boring.

LaDeeDa234 said...

I tried to post this on TuckerMax but somehow it never showed up (and now the topic is closed...surprise, surprise). Since I'm sure some of them are reading here, I will post here:

I have been reading all of the nasty posts, both here and at Fatty McBlog, by both fatties and fattie-haters. I normally do not come out of my lurking room, but I feel that I need to speak on this topic!!!!

First of all, let me put my cards on the table. I AM FAT! I know how I got fat. By eating too much and not exercising enough. I am currently 200 lbs. I used to be closer to 250 lbs and have lost weight by working out and eating healthier. I cook meals at home instead of living on takeout. I walk wherever possible and go to the gym 3 days/ week. I know that I need to continue working out in order to continue losing weight. I know that once I lose weight, I will continue to eat sensibly and workout in order not to gain it back.

Having said that, I hate people who pick on fat people simply because they are fat. I know that there are a lot of people on this blog who say that the reason they are so venomous is b/c they are sick and tired of those who whine about being fat and yet doing nothing about it. Fine. I know those fat people exist....for 2 yrs I was one of those "woe is me" types. I get the same way about people who complain about their boyfriends who cheat on them yet don't dump the asshole and move on.

What I have a problem with is the people who will judge me just on my size. They don't know me. All they have is a quick glance at my obviously overweight body, and suddenly I am labeled with "stupid, lazy, must sit at home on the couch stuffing her face with twinkies". And even though I know that those assumptions do not describe me, it is still painful.

It is a fact that the weight I have did not get put on overnight. I know that it will take even longer to come off. I am willing to accept responsibility for the way I look and accept the timeframe that it will take to stop looking this way. What I am not willing to accept is someone insulting me, or targeting me for a "hogging" session just because of my size.

I am not asking anyone to feel sorry for me, I am simply asking for respect as a human being.

Thank you for "listening".

Anonymous said...

Wow Emily. Your response to a supposedly biggoted critic is to accuse him of homosexuality, my goodness, isn't that mature and consistant of you.

WHO said...

For the record, Archangel, GOOGLE is the worlds most visited website. Not Maddox. And not Tucker.

Tucker and Maddox only rank in the top ten thousand. They are nowhere near number 1 and number 2. Fuck, dooce outranks both of them and all she writes about is her kids constipation.

I'm not a fat sympathizer, mind you. I just hate it when people who don't have thier facts straight call other people stupid.

emily pound said...

ladeeda234,

I honestly don't want to be negative, but don't expect any of the Fucker Max people to empathize or sympathize with you. They are incapable of being anything but stupid.

LaDeeDa234 said...

emily pound: I am quite sure you are right. I just needed to get the thought out of my system b4 it festered and poisoned me into becoming a bitter person. And if I can convince one person to think before they speak, then I will be happy!!!

Stephb0b said...

Okay so the TMMB fucks don’t understand us and we don’t understand them…. Moving on…

Gloria said...

My weight starting comming on when I was married to a Tucker Maxipad type man who had sexual issues. He felt he had to prove himself a man by being a complete ass ect. Just like the Tucker Maxipad fans who have been commenting on this blog lately. After divorcing his ass and getting on with my life I was able to lose the weight. When she gained about ten pounds after having a baby her husband got nasty about her weight. The pathetic thing was that he had gained 50 lbs since they had gotten married. What do you think happened when she left his ass? She lost 20lbs, twice what she had gained in the first place. I'm not going to claim that this is always the case, but I've noticed that with almost all the women I've known who were younger in life, then got fat, that there was a Tucker Maxipad man involved when the weight came on. Those that left the lost the weight back. Coincidence? I think not.

Anonymous said...

:oD
Fucker Max!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
I checked out the "fucker max" idiot board!

The TMMB is probably one of the most intelligent message boards in the internet today. Mostly because all the moderators are intelligent and all posters who lack any skill to write coherently, or funny are banned until they get their act together.

Yeah....it's a regular mensa meeting over there! lol!
I have never read posts that were less intelligent than from over there....Intelligent? Not where I come from.
And I have a higher than average IQ and I post here, so don't accuse me of being stupid.

Go back to your aptly named "Idiot Board" and find another group of people to bash.

You are not going to force people into changing their weight by insulting and using inhuman cruelty.
I just hope that you people experience the same kind of hatred that we at this blog had to put up with from you.
Only then will you realize how your hatred and anger towards people is nothing but destructive.

gloria said...

Just wanted to say sorry for the typos in my last post. I'm out sick today and wasn't feeling very well when I wrote it. Being pissed off didn't help either. lol. Still am not feeling great actually. Anyway, sorry guys.

Archangel said...

To Who.

Yes, you are right. I forgot to specify, that Tucker and Maddox run the Top 2 most visited internet sites, owned/run by a single individual.(Maddox has spent exactly 0.00$ on advertisement)

My mistake, I all-heartedly apologise. Call me stupid, I don't care, everyone fucks up.



To ladeeda234

I see your point, but you have to understand that no-one is psychic. It's in the nature of man to create stereotypes. If you happen to be labeled one, then tough shit.

I better not get started on people who can't help but to sob 3 days straight when they bumped into someone in the bus and get called a jerk.

Get some self-confidence and stop caring what others think so much.

And if you don't want to be falsely labeled, don't give anyone any chance to mistake you for one.

The facts are, that as long as you are fat, you will be perceived as one. Whether you have made progress or not is beside the point.

If you are on your way to losing the fat then good for you. I have no beef against you. I cheer for you.

Now stop complaining and tough it out. In a few years you'll probably be making fun of fat people yourself. And if you make it, into a fit person that is, I'm sure you'll have enough confidence to tell anyone to fuck off, when they try to label you.


To emily pound

Why the hell are you so bitter and fucking nasty. What's your problem?

Did we hit a nerve? Can't handle the critizism? Or are you so weak you can stand up for yourself and back up your words?


We're stupid? Alright, prove it. I'm listening, if you make your point, I'll make a website proclaiming myself stupid and you can all lauch your ass off, while I sit home and don't care.


Oh, someone new, to the last anonymous.


Higher than average IQ, oh christ, look at me shake. Please, my IQ is well above average, yet I don't go around telling everyone I'm a genious.

The fact that TMMB doesn't discuss metaphysichs or anything on that note doesn't mean that some people there actually aren't scientists. Cause some are.

TMMB is meant to be funny, that's it. Funny, coherent and to the point. Tucker said himself that the only thing he cares is funny. It's his website, his board and he doesn't really give a fuck about most people there - we are all writing there for his and our own amusement.

If you haven't noticed, good funny is hard to write. Yet I get enough laughs from every thread to last me a day.
While reading this blog for an hour has given me nothing but goosebumps. Scary shit...

"You are not going to force people into changing their weight by insulting and using inhuman cruelty.
I just hope that you people experience the same kind of hatred that we at this blog had to put up with from you.
Only then will you realize how your hatred and anger towards people is nothing but destructive."


Are you kidding me? Do you think constant support from other fatties is going to help them lose weight? Getting told day after day that it's ok to be fat, you can't help it? That look, it's funny and all? Shit on a stick...

The World is a cruel place sometimes, and making people think that is isn't won't help them. It will make them into whining wussies.

If you smack someone in the head with the cold, hard truth enough times, it just might get through.

And where do you people get that we are angry? Fuck... angry? If anything we are getting annoyed by the way you think.
It's like talking to wall that spits out bullshit and hurt feelings. When it actually needs to get rid of a few bricks...


Stop defending the fatties, make them see that it's not ok to be fat and in denial. Make them so pissed at you that they'll shed all that weight, just to find you, catch you and beat you to death.
That would be the ultimate victory...

Red...the whore with herpes? said...

higher than average IQ and I post here, so don't accuse me of being stupid.

average = stupid. higher than average = means nothing.

If you think the TMMB is unintelligent, well then, it's probably because you're too stupid to differentiate between serious threads and fun ones.

To the chick who was 250, is now 200 and is going to the gym, kuddos to you. Way to go and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY! That's all we've been saying. I don't really make assumptions based on your weight, but if you're fat, and I see you having a coke and a mae west for breakfast, damn straight I'm gonna laugh at you. That's what our problem is.

Being humorous about her weight is just a defense mechanism. It's the class clown approach. If I'm funny first, then atleast I'm in control of why they're laughing at me. It's the cowards way out. What takes strength is recognizing your weaknesses and doing something to overcome them. If not, keep it to yourself.

Again, I'm a big drinker/smoker, that's fine for me, I'm not going to lie and start a website talking about how it's okay to smoke. It's not ok. I will never say it is. It's a choice I make with consequences. But I would always encourage people to not start or quit.

Your site tells people it's okay to be fat. No, you might be okay with it, that doesn't make it ok. And that's the difference.

Anonymous said...

First, Genius..
I never said I was a genius. I just said I had a higher than average IQ. That is a fact. You keep telling us that we are fat and stupid, I just want to dispell that myth right now. I AM smarter than most people. My weight has no effect on my intelligence quotient.
I really hope that you people go away. You are scum. My boyfriend has to deal with scumbags like you every day and it is disgusting.
You ask us why we're angry? Take a walk in our shoes for awhile and read some of the stuff you scummy people have posted here. Anyone on the receiving end of your bullshit would be pissed. We ARE pissed that you would come to our blog and shit all over us.
And the part that I wrote about the tucker max idiot board being a mensa member? Let me explain:
I was being sarcastic.
Now fuck off.

emily pound said...

Fucker Max people,

There are people at the drive thru waiting for you to take their orders! Get those fucking hairnets back on and get to work! Now!

WHO said...

Archangel:

Still, you are giving Maddox and Tucker more credit than credit is due. Like I said before, Dooce, on average, outranks them both and all she writes about is her ugly ass kid and poop issues. Dooce is run by a single person. So, once again, you are wrong.

Listen, I'm not saying Tucker and Maddox don't get shit tons of traffic. I'm just saying that there is a world of difference between being number 1 and being in the top ten thousand. And by 'stretching' the truth, you kinda take away from the very real accomplishments that have already been achieved.

And I'm not calling you stupid. Just trying to clue you into the facts.

Neekeela said...

I enjoy reading your blog. I like hearing the perspective of someone who feels like she doesn't 'fit' into the space she has been allotted and the troubles and hillarity that ensues. I think your blog should be a sitcom. I've lost some weight, but as a chubby Asian chick out in San Francisco, I can say your posts resonate with me cause I don't fit either. Part of not fitting means that other people hate you for it.

All this posting ugliness reminds me of when my family first came to this country. My aunt and uncle were some of the first Indians to come to the US in the late 60's, and even though we lived in NY and Indians had been in this country for at least 15-20 years, we got A LOT OF SHIT TALKING from folks. I remember being a kid and having people scream 'dirty Indians--GO HOME!' To which my mom would say nothing, but wished she had said something clever or witty back. I always felt it wasn't worth screaming back because there was no way what I would say would change that man's mind and yelling would only start a fight that would make me feel worse than being scorned for merely existing as I am.

If this blog doesn't resonate, doesn't make sense, makes you angry or crazy, then why engage it? I don't understand. I've lost weight, I've gained weight, but it's so weird to me when people tell me what I need to do to keep doing one and not the other. Unless you're a nutritionist, physical trainer, or my doctor who I have paid to tell me what I need to do, why would you bother wasting your time? My body, my life, they are mine to do with as I please. To write about as I please. I take up space and if my size, my color, my gender or any other outwardly visible thing about me offends--move on. You won't have to look much longer if you walk away.

Archangel said...

Nice one... I'll follow that advice.


Anyway, we're done here. We have said all there is to say. Those that get their act together, nice work. Those that don't... well, it's your loss.


See you around, and do drop by the TMMB boards every now and then. Who knows, maybe you'll contribute something funny.

Laura from Canada said...

I'M PUTTING THIS IN LARGE PRINT IN ORDER THAT THIS COMMENT IS NOT LOST IN THE SHITLOAD OF HATE THAT IS GOING ON IN THIS COMMENT SECTION.

EMILY AND LINDSAY, SHUT THE COMMENTS SECTION DOWN. BY ALLOWING THESE REDNECK TYPES TO KEEP ON THEIR IDIOTIC QUEST TO "PROVE" THEMSELVES (they are sufferers of LMS and do not get the fact that they DON'T HAVE TO READ THIS WEBSITE), IT IS JUST CAUSING A LOT OF NEGATIVE SHIT TO GATHER ON YOUR WONDERFUL, WITTY AND INTELLIGENT SITE.

These people are like terrorists, and you can't let them win. By shutting down your comments section (for now) you will end this ridiculous nonsense.

YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL, LOVELY AND WITTY WOMEN, REGARDLESS OF SIZE, CLASS OR WHATEVER.

Sending lots of love your way,
Laura from Canada

Mary Garden said...

Neekela - very well said!

This kind of thing makes me so depressed about people. I lost 120 lbs, joining the ranks of the "virtuous" thin last year. I started dating again and got to enjoy the following:

A guy (on a date w/me) told me a "funny" story about going to meet up with a blind date in a coffee shop. When he walked by the window on his way in, he spotted the girl in question. She was fatter than he thought she was going to be, so he pretended he didn't see her and kept walking. He caught a look at her face as he passed by, and saw her recognize him.

Now, I think an argument can be made that false advertising is not playing fair - what I don't like is the implication that it's SO not fair that the party in question deserves to be publicly humiliated.

Anyway, that was a deal killer for me, and I never went out with the guy again. He was completely at a loss to understand what the problem was. I guess the way I see it is that a person who could be so cruel to that girl for such superficial reasons could just as easily find superficial reasons to be cruel to me, or anyone else. The fact that he obviously enjoyed and felt self-righteous about humiliating her is an even bigger red flag. A person like that is not to be trusted, plain and simple.

I take issue with the notion trumpeted above by I don't remember which of these sociopaths that once ladeeda234 finished losing weight, she'd start scorning fat people too. Not unless she's one of you - and there's more to being one of you than a lack of adipose. Sociopathy. If you don't like that blanket judgment of mine, scorny scorn-pants, then CHANGE.

Another guy I went out with had once turned up at a blind date to find that the young lady he'd been writing to for a week was actually an old man. He was polite, had a cup of coffee with the guy and took advantage of the opportunity to ask him, pleasantly enough, what exactly he had thought was going to happen on this date. The guy basically shrugged and said he thought he was more persuasive in person. My friend finished his coffee and politely took his leave. Now that's a mensch.

MG

Buffpuff said...

You find it impossible that there are both males and females on the board who see nothing incredible in say getting/giving 3 blowjobs a day from/to fuckbuddies, having fun with sex, going out and getting into amazing adventures and so much more.

Hey, cheap, meaningless sex with random people who call you their fuckbuddy; surely the very epitome of success! Damn this terrible fat which prevents me from being a slut. Oh, wait a minute, it doesn't.

Stacia said...

I'm sure some people who lose weight do feel superior once they're thin. On diet support groups I see plenty of people who obviously hate themselves for no other reason than they're overweight. If they truly have their entire self-worth wrapped up in how much they weigh, then the number they see on the scale in the morning will likely cause them to feel superior, or inferior, depending on the number.

I love the guy who said Tucker Maxites "succeed at life"... cue upbeat infomercial music. Funniest thing I've read all thread. Or maybe it was the TM crowd being unable to spell "kudos", "caucasian" and "genius", all while claiming to be intelligent and witty folks.

What also kills me is that those who get so upset at the hate from the Tucker Max group are often spewing hate of their own. "Slut", "redneck", "asschunk" and "small penis" are some of the lovely things I've heard. Hypocrite much?

It's sad your blog ended up being on the receiving end of such hate. But I don't think I've ever seen a blog that dealt with fat issues, gender issues or sexuality issues that didn't at least once get a group of dittoheads from some place like TM. Especially in the summertime, when they don't have remedial college English courses to keep them busy otherwise.

Honestly, they can go to hell. They'll be off making fun of people who eat Kosher next, or maybe they'll troll a quadraplegic support group. Don't sweat it.

buffpuff said...

Neekeela, that was an ace post and that is some gorgeous ginger cat you've got! (And, no, fat-bashers, that was not a message in code).

Anonymous said...

I'm not on the Tucker Max people's site, but I really don't think they'd make fun of disabled people etc.

I think they've made it very clear that they think people are fat because it is their fault.

And I sort of agree, even though I am not a fat-hater.

We can talk genetics all we want, but EVERYONE here (or at least the people living in America) has seen obese people stuffing their faces all the time.

I don't always blame willpower, though. Some cities in the US are just very conducive to weight gain. When I went to Dallas for a conference, I gained 5lbs eating similarly to how I eat at home. I would order a steak or grilled chicken or vegetables and everything would be dripping in some kind of sauce that had too many calories. Not to mention Dallas isn't a great city to be able to walk around it.

So I don't always blame willpower, but I don't like the fat acceptance movement's assertion that fat people are mostly fat because of other factors.

Haven't the girls on this very blog declared they are fat because they eat too much?

What do you think about that, buffpuff?

Then again, just because someone chooses to be fat, doesn't mean they deserve to be ridiculed. I personally find extremely fat people unattractive, just as many (or most) people find extremely skinny people unnattractive. Or extremely tall or extremely short people.

Most extremes are considered unattractive. I'm not a fat-hater because I think morbidly obese people are ugly. But since when did making fun of unattractive people become acceptable?

So Tucker people, yeah really fat people can be considered unattractive because of their weight. We get it. Society agrees. But what's the point of ridiculing them for it?

Anonymous said...

P.S. NO ONE on a blog proofreads. Pointing out spelling errors or typos means you have NOTHING else to criticize.

And if you think the inability to spell means you are unintelligent, then all of you pointing this out are incredibly stupid, because I have met many brilliant professors in college who simply cannot spell.

Plus, you can never be sure what is a misspelling and what is a typo. If you yourself are intelligent, find something substantial to criticize.

peppa said...

Here's an example of Tucker & trolls being attacked in the nasty ways that they attacked people here. Except that their attackers DO have a point against Tucker and his gang.

I love the way Tucker fucks defend him, they do have feelings after all.

Awwww poor things


http://www.wackbag.com/showthread.php?s=53e551c2917b63c4a7d154c072eb5141&t=47436

Anonymous said...

I've never had to dress and leave a guy's house because he's embarassed to be seen with me in public. Wouldn't that be worth giving up cake for?

fatties.

Stacia said...

And if you think the inability to spell means you are unintelligent, then all of you pointing this out are incredibly stupid

Anonymous 4:11, of all the idiotic things you said, this was my favorite. Cheers.

Anonymous said...

I visit Tucker Max's site regularly. I am male, single and 23. The reason I do is for humor and interesting stories and tidbits of life from other members on the board. I am only here because I saw the thread, followed the link, and now see there's some sort of silly "war". No, the reason TMMB folks are "trolling" this site isn't to mock you people for being fat, it's for being vulnerable. You put yourself out there on the web, admitted to your laziness and apathy, and therefore, have to inevitably deal with the criticism should someone decide to give it to you... And, I gotta say, you behaved predictably. Rather than laugh it off, or somewhat intelligently defend your position, you reacted very defensively. Look at your two posts about the TMMB thread: they contain painfully-obvious-yet-supposed-to-be-thinly-veiled jabs at either Tucker Max or the members that go to his site (e.g. "I used to read his site two years ago but got bored," and "Most 14 year old's probably think he's a God.") What do you hope to accomplish with that, when you practically lay the roots of your pathology open to everyone? The truth is, you're really insecure at your fatness, and even though you have your own blog dedicated to it, you can hide behind your computer screen and never actually come out in public and claim your fatness. So while you're insecure, don't bullshit us with this silly song and dance about how you're happy with your fatness and all that "different strokes for different folks" stuff. You're being fake, and it shows. THAT'S why we mock you. Hope this was of some help...

Phemisaurus Terribilis said...

Anonymous posting at 11:56. What you are basically saying is that your reason for bullying another person has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the person you are bullying.

Take responsibility for your own actions.
You alone decide whether or not to mock another person. What your comment proves is that you are the sort of person that would make fun of somebody else and your rationalising this behaviour does nothing to change what it is: bullying.

Anonymous said...

i'd love to spray whipped cream all over my crotch and watch a fatty work it

Archangel said...

Ahh, knock it off already.

This place has lost it's funny. There really is a limit to how long you can make fun of someone and laugh at their attempts to defend or ridicule one back.


We bullied you, big deal. Don't be a wuss and get over it.

There is a reason why bullies exist, and that's because people like you exist. People that self knowingly create their life in a fashion that it can be ridiculed by anyone.





If you find any misspelled words in the text above, ignore them. Because I am in fact writing in a foreign language.

But I'm sure you don't care... so nevermind.

Have fun people. I'll check in every once in a while to see how long you bother to mess around with this comment war.

emily pound said...

anonymous 8:39:

I'll bet you've had to get dressed in a hurry when his wife showed up though.

Buffpuff said...

Anonymous said...

I've never had to dress and leave a guy's house because he's embarassed to be seen with me in public. Wouldn't that be worth giving up cake for?

What? Leaving a guy's house naked? Nah, think I'll opt for the cake, thanks. Sorry, what was the intelligent question again?

Ah yes, another anonymous:

...I don't always blame willpower, but I don't like the fat acceptance movement's assertion that fat people are mostly fat because of other factors. Haven't the girls on this very blog declared they are fat because they eat too much? What do you think about that, buffpuff?

I know, as I've stated elsewhere, that people become and stay fat for a very wide variety of reasons. Certain medications, thyroid or endocrine disorders and insulin resistance can all have an impact on weight gain, how and where that surplus weight might be stored by the body and whether or not it's retained, regardless of diet and/or exercise. Things like poverty, disability, genetics, (yep, sorry but apples, pears and string beans inherit their respective shapes from their forbears along with predispositions to certain diseases and a fast, slow or middling metabolism), childbirth, depression, stop-start dieting, long-term illness, eating disorders or simply hitting middle-age can also have an impact on body-size...and, if you want to add greed, apathy and/or a sedentary lifestyle to the list, then be my guest. They can certainly be contributors too – as can a combo of several of the above.

I believe the Fatty McBlog girls have dieted on and off for most of their lives. Far from teaching one to eat healthily or in moderation, dieting creates guilt, anxiety and disordered thinking around food. Many fat people and compulsive eaters – the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive – are serial dieters. (A “diet”, for the purpose of this exercise, is not the kind of well-balanced, everything-in-moderation eating regime most of us would benefit from following, but one involving a deliberate, sometimes drastic reduction in calorie intake for a prolonged period of time with severe restrictions on the types of food which may and may not be consumed). When we diet we semi-starve our bodies, effectively creating a famine situation and our metabolism slows down accordingly – so the next time famine strikes our bodies will have learned to store fat that much more efficiently. This is why the vast majority of dieters put all their weight back on and more every time they cease dieting. Stopping for some might involve throwing "a hot fudge sundae party" (cheers, ignorant, vicious little Red), after months of abstinence, but here’s the thing: it will happen regardless of what you eat This, for most, inevitable recidivism is one of the reasons people diet repeatedly and the more often they do so the more they compromise their health, metabolism and weight.

You might not like what my life experience has shown me about the complex nature of achieving and maintaining thinness – or my size-acceptance leanings either – but you asked for my opinion and there it is. Did you by the way know there are people of all sizes involved in fat acceptance, including recovering anorexics who seek a differing view from the thin-worshipping culture which destroys the health and self-esteem of millions? The views and experiences of those who advocate self and size- acceptance differ wildly. But the one thing we are probably all agreed on is that being fat does not render us subhuman or any less deserving of basic respect than those who are not fat.

Finally, The truth is, you're really insecure at your fatness, and...you can hide behind your computer screen and never actually come out in public and claim your fatness.

Actually I just made it into a national newspaper in the UK for challenging a bigoted journalist who thinks fat people should be taxed. They sent a photographer round to take my picture and, what’s more, published it. Damn, you’ll have to cross off “whining victims with no self-esteem” on your list of stereotypes now.

Heather said...

A lot of the people posting here (in attack of us) use the fact that: I am a smoker and since I know it's bad for me, you won't see me whining about the fact that I will probably die of lung cancer. These are the same people who view obesity in disgust because THEY don't want to be affected by our bulk (such as being bumped as we walk by in the store, sharing a seat with us on a bus etc.). They don't like being affected by OUR fat. Yet, they seem to have no problem inflicting their 2nd hand smoke on anyone within 10 feet of them?!?!

Kinda Hypocratic, don't ya think?!

Red...the whore with herpes? said...

Um...yeah...just having fun checking up on our little war. What fun! As the one who used the smoking defence, I am considerate of others. I will only smoke in my own home, or outside, usually out of the way of foot traffic so that people don't have to walk through smoke. Not that it shoudl bother you, as I'm sure you only leave your house for hot fudge sundaes. Fatty.

ShortDave said...

First and foremost this is NOT in internet threat, because those are just weird. I personally have nothing against Tucker Max, he is pretty funny, and the girls here are pretty damned funny too.
Now onto the thing that isn't a threat. A lot of people from TMMB seem to be picking on people here, and Archangel for one thinks this is just fine, saying things like this :

"We bullied you, big deal. Don't be a wuss and get over it.

There is a reason why bullies exist, and that's because people like you exist. People that self knowingly create their life in a fashion that it can be ridiculed by anyone."

Okay, kind of a suck it up mentality. I happen to have friends who, when they drink, tend to kick peoples teeth out. I hang out with MMA fighters and weightlifters, we are generally bigger, stronger and better fighters than most anybody else in a given place, thus everyone else is smaller and weaker, or according to your logic a victim, and it is their own fault.

Sure they end up kind of disfigured, but it's okay, they'll get over it, they are still the same intelligent, sitty person they were before.
There is a reason why people that kick ass exist, and that's because of small weak people. People that willingly create a life with the emphasis away from the physical.
We are supposed to be civil, an apparently that means you can attack someone verbally and not physically, that really never caught on with us.

Again, not a threat, just a slightly different view.

ShortDave said...

I meant witty, not sitty.

Damn, apparently now I am stupid too.

Red...the whore with herpes? said...

whoever put that o&a link, and to whichever fatty was bitching about how tucker doesn't mention the incident on that show, that there is what someone above was trying to say. Why didn't Tucker address it, because damn sure the quickest way to start an attack is do go on the defensive. People will think what they want, you like him or you don't, he's not about making people like him, he's about putting himself out there, and taking what comes back at him, good or bad. Likewise, if you're going to put yourself out there as you are on this site, accept that not everyone will agree and instead of going on the mad defensive and calling people sluts, rednecks, bigots, or not so well endowed (yeah, that's right, that was all the pro-fatties, not the TM ppl - they pretty much stuck to fatty, so watch who you're calling a hypocryte). Seriously, if you had laughed it off, left it alone, it wouldn't be this. But now it's funny, so enjoy. Fatty.

Anonymous said...

I hope the Trucker Maxes get bored sooooooooooooon. And leave. Then we can get back to what we were doin before.

Believe me, they will. It's just a matter of when they lose interest. Hopefully, any moment now.

angryblackchick said...

not yet...fatties

Anonymous said...

Believe me angryblack, you'll go away eventually.

Robb said...

This is too rich. It's been quite some time since I've been amidst a flame war. Though they do clutter up the field, it does make me feel much better to bear witness to the fact that there are people in the world far trashier than me or even the trashier people I know. They won't go away too soon, judging from the fact that they probably live moment to moment, one funny thing to one funny thing, and therefore won't quit until something else grasps their short attention spans, like something shiny. So have fun with it at least. It's a lot better for you than rage or stress.

I mean c'mon, you're letting a bunch of angry hicks rile you up. Take it in stride and know that they aren't the best or even the majority of the world. The sooner we stop responding to them I guess, the sooner they'll disperse.

Buffpuff said...

ShortDave, my friend. I've read your post several times and I can't quite see what you're getting at. Knowing you from other threads and respecting you I can't believe you're actually agreeing with this knuckle-dragging cretin that it's okay to go around hitting people for no other reason that they're not into body-building?

Sorry if I'm being thick, because we both know I'm not, but...'splainy?

Anonymous said...

I totally agree with the anonymous comment on your post. And for your rebuttal that because of genetics you are forced to be overweight, I'm living proof genetics don't mean crap. My family is morbidly obese. I was obese and on my way to worse so after being a part of all the 'fat acceptance' stuff, I did something. I'm not close to skinny but I'm within a 'healthy weight range' and feel better than I've ever felt. It's not easy but it's possible and worth it. Those with bad genetics just have to work a bit harder.

Anonymous said...

buffpuff said: "I know, as I've stated elsewhere, that people become and stay fat for a very wide variety of reasons. Certain medications, thyroid or endocrine disorders and insulin resistance can all have an impact on weight gain, how and where that surplus weight might be stored by the body and whether or not it's retained, regardless of diet and/or exercise. Things like poverty, disability, genetics, (yep, sorry but apples, pears and string beans inherit their respective shapes from their forbears along with predispositions to certain diseases and a fast, slow or middling metabolism), childbirth, depression, stop-start dieting, long-term illness, eating disorders or simply hitting middle-age can also have an impact on body-size...and, if you want to add greed, apathy and/or a sedentary lifestyle to the list, then be my guest. They can certainly be contributors too – as can a combo of several of the above. "

Buffpuff, I think this goes to the crux of the whole argument. You've listed a whole slew of reasons why people can be fat, and almost as an afterthought, added sedentary lifestyle to the list.

That's like me listing about 50 causes for lung cancer - arsenic, and benzene, and diesel exhaust, and asbestos, and then adding in, "oh by the way, cigarettes cause lung cancer too".

What you're trying to obfuscate is that a sedentary lifestyle is the culprit for a LARGE majority of the cases of obesity, much as cigarette smoking is the primary cause for a majority of lung cancers. You and the other fat advocates seem ecstatic when you can roll out the old 95% failure rate for diets (which one of the Tucker people quite conclusively showed was utter bullshit), but then when it comes to obesity, you'll fight tooth and nail when someone comes along and claims that 90% of obese people are that way because of their lifestyle.

This is what's a red flag to the Tucker crowd. It's the whiney victim mentality of "my thyroid gland made me fat". I think most of the venom has been directed not at those who acknowledge the causes of their obesity, but at the ones trying to portray it as a God-given attribute.

Yes, the Tucker people will leave this discussion eventually. But you're not going to be able to leave behind the large majority of society that they represent and speak for.

And lastly, please do not think I'm a fan of Tucker Max. As soon as I read his anal sex story on his website, I knew the man was making up his crap as he goes. If you've ever seen a bottle of Astroglide, you'd know exactly how implausible his story was. I think you'd have to be an utter moron not to be able to see all the cracks in his narrative, but gullible people are always a wonderful source of income, and never in short supply..

Kate said...

Those with bad genetics just have to work a bit harder.


Why do I "have" to work harder? Life is not a boot camp, or a dress rehearsal; it's all we get. Why can't I just live my life without people spewing hate at me because I choose to enjoy it rather than live it like it's some sort of contest?

You win. If you want to feel superior to me, you go right ahead; it's no skin off my nose. Just keep your vitriolic invective to yourself.

Kate said...

You and the other fat advocates seem ecstatic when you can roll out the old 95% failure rate for diets (which one of the Tucker people quite conclusively showed was utter bullshit),

That poster did no such thing. S/he posted one comment by one doctor who happens to be employed by a weight-loss company. The study I referred to was done in 1992, NOT 1950-something as the other poster cited, and performed by the National Institutes of Health.

But why people are fat is NOT the point most of us are trying to make.

I can't speak for the others here, but quite frankly, I don't care if you find me and others like me disgusting. I just want you to keep your ignorant assumptions about our us (informed by nothing but your own prejudices) to yourself.

Robb said...

You go Kate! mmmhmmm

ShortDave said...

BuffPuff, I am actually great friends with people who fight, the reasons aren't as cut and dry as just people being smaller, usually these people are also pretty lippy. I personally am not a fighter unless my hand is forced.
And I do NOT believe it is okay to go around hitting people, just as I do not believe it is okay to go around and make fun of people for not other reason than they seem weaker or less physically 'developed'.
I was hoping that people would see the similarities between attacking somebody mentally/emotionally and attacking them physically, why one seems to be perfectly acceptable within our culture and the other one is met with shock and disgust when they both should be held with equal contempt.

I probably just didn't word things correctly. Does this make sense or is this lack of air conditioning making me nonsensical?

Jenn said...

So it would be ok to bash people with mental handicaps because they could learn to read a book and make themselves smarter, but choose not too?

Should we all go over to the cancer web sites and let them know that they have a chance to become healthy again if only they would commit to more chemotherapy?

It's sad but true, but obesity is the last acceptable prejudice.

P.S. I couldn't figure out why most people were anon posters. I now know that noone wants these complete idiots visiting their sites.

Anonymous said...

kate, Could you please post just ONE single reference to your claim that 95% of diets fail? Exactly WHICH study was done in 1992? I have several rather extensive databases at my fingertips, and I would just love to corroborate you. To date, not a SINGLE fat advocate has produced a concrete example of this statistic. This is the worst type of misinformation, and as soon as you subscribe to it, you lose all respect from the rest of us whatsoever.

Jenn, obesity is not the last acceptable prejudice. We also hate child molesters, heroin addicts, and those who write bad checks. All of whom could also change their behavior if they chose to. Period.

shortdave: "BuffPuff, I am actually great friends with people who fight,..." WTF dude? If you haven't figured out yet you don't fit here, you need to ease off on the Diabanol shots and get your ass to misc.fitness.weights where you belong. The rest of us here are into being puffy and sedentary, not contenders in the ultimate fighting challenge..

Anonymous said...

jenn: "So it would be ok to bash people with mental handicaps because they could learn to read a book and make themselves smarter, but choose not too?"

Jenn, I'm sorry, I reaaly hate to be judgemental, but you're a whole new breed of moron..

You think someone with an IQ of 85 can read some books and magically become normal?

/ btw, it's "to" not "too", but I don't think you're smart enough to grok the difference

peppa said...

Red...the whore with herpes? said...

"whoever put that o&a link, and to whichever fatty was bitching about how tucker doesn't mention the incident on that show, that there is what someone above was trying to say. Why didn't Tucker address it, because damn sure the quickest way to start an attack is do go on the defensive. People will think what they want, you like him or you don't, he's not about and taking what comes back at him, good or bad.............."

Huh???

Say what???

Now that's what I call some contradictory ramblings. I don't think you even make sense to yourself.

I'm going to quote something from one of the postees regarding Tucker Max and his followers, because the links don't seem to be working. The postee uses some crude and offensive language, but the rest of his point is what matters (fatties please don't hate me too much for posting this.):


***************************




"______",

"You are are the f%# for signing up on here to vehemetly defend a made-up, internet "celebrity". The only reason why you tools follow him like little girls, is because of the way he markets himself online. But once that FUCK opens his LISPY, F&%$#% mouth, INSTANTLY all his stories are bullshit.

INSTANTLY.

If he was a real man he wouldn't bury the story on his website, and ban people from his boards (Opie and Anthony let everything fly). He's a fraud who's desperately trying to save his persona of an asshole, when in fact, he got FUCKING OWNED by the only real men who actually called his stories bullshit.

Honestly, when was the last time a real man called HIMSELF (literally out-loud) an alpha male?

You wanna know the answer?

NEVER. (Real men don't try hard to let everyone know how manly they are. Tucker tries and fails.)

You look stupid for defending him.

.........a real man wouldnt write about his sexual conquests in the first place, AND then talk about how he's an "asshole" and brags about how cool he is.

In fact, since Tucker calls himself an alpha-male, literally out loud (see his Sirius test-show), that means he's not an alpha-male by definition. An alpha male is a term derived from sociological/psychological studies and only people who study these men ACTUALLY call them alpha males. (What he's doing is trying hard to associate himself with exactly what he wants to be.)"
[tourettesguy]


********************************


(This is/was actually on the Tucker Forum): From His Board Rules

5. BE YOURSELF. Do not lie, pose, front--whatever. No one will look down on you for being a nerd or being something we are not, but everyone wil hate you if you lie. Don't do it.


"Obviously his life and his board have a different set of rules". [TuckerFacts]

[Tucker Max Liar thread on wackbag.com]

********************************

Anonymous said...

I have no clue who Tucker Max is; he's not the guy with the bowtie (whoever he is besides Tucker something) and anyway who cares?

I am a guy who has always adored heavy women. I cannot explain why this is; it certainly hasn't made my life any easier as regards discussing "girls" so I have mostly spent years kind of staring straight ahead and occasionally nodding when anyone brought up the subject, hoping I wouldn't blush (in love and anger) when they eventually got around to discussing how they hated fat girls. I love them. I feel so alone, like truly gay people must have felt (and maybe still do). It's a tough go being weird, you know? And where do you find friends who understand?

All of this is to say: it's a big planet with plenty of room for surprise. Big picture, we're probably f'd, but small picture, one on one, where the magic happens, there's a lot of love to go around for all of us, fat, thin, whatever... maybe even the fascists on Tucker Whoever's site; maybe there are enough people who adore hate to join with them and make the world happy.

Anonymous said...

um, Tucker doesn't have a lisp

Buffpuff said...

ShortDave - thanks, hon, for clarifying things for me. A point better made the second time around and one, I notice, no one has bothered to pick up on, (aside from the smartarse who seems to think you're not entitled to enjoy our company). Personally I'd have thought they'd have been delighted to discover that it isn't only fat folk who post here. Some appear to consider it their mission to keep us the hell away from each other's pernicious influence.

To Anonymous who likes big girls: I don't know who Tucker Max is either but, if his fawning acolytes are anything to go by, it's a forgone conclusion he's a charmless, self-opinionated oik.

You're not weird, bless you heart. What's weird, in my view, is the idea that society can – and should – dictate what and whom an individual should find attractive. And what's sad is that many people who are made to feel like the object of their desire is shameful will, through peer pressure, force themselves into passionless relationships where both parties end up getting short-changed. Subjugating a natural desire isn't healthy – and it's as natural and healthy for you to love a fuller female figure as it is for someone else to love a waif or a person of their own sex.

There's a difference, as evidenced here, between good-natured teasing and cruel, mindless lambasting. You're only a victim as long as you consider your sexual preference shameful or worthy of criticism. Choose your friends with care and be upfront about the kind of girl who floats your boat. Your real friends will love you anyway – plus they'll have the added security of knowing you're never going to hit on their skinny girlfriends.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
buffpuff said: "I know, as I've stated elsewhere, that people become and stay fat for a very wide variety of reasons. Certain medications, thyroid or endocrine disorders and insulin resistance can all have an impact on weight gain, how and where that surplus weight might be stored by the body and whether or not it's retained, regardless of diet and/or exercise. Things like poverty, disability, genetics, (yep, sorry but apples, pears and string beans inherit their respective shapes from their forbears along with predispositions to certain diseases and a fast, slow or middling metabolism), childbirth, depression, stop-start dieting, long-term illness, eating disorders or simply hitting middle-age can also have an impact on body-size...and, if you want to add greed, apathy and/or a sedentary lifestyle to the list, then be my guest. They can certainly be contributors too – as can a combo of several of the above. "

Buffpuff, I think this goes to the crux of the whole argument. You've listed a whole slew of reasons why people can be fat, and almost as an afterthought, added sedentary lifestyle to the list.

That's like me listing about 50 causes for lung cancer - arsenic, and benzene, and diesel exhaust, and asbestos, and then adding in, "oh by the way, cigarettes cause lung cancer too".

What you're trying to obfuscate is that a sedentary lifestyle is the culprit for a LARGE majority of the cases of obesity, much as cigarette smoking is the primary cause for a majority of lung cancers. You and the other fat advocates seem ecstatic when you can roll out the old 95% failure rate for diets (which one of the Tucker people quite conclusively showed was utter bullshit), but then when it comes to obesity, you'll fight tooth and nail when someone comes along and claims that 90% of obese people are that way because of their lifestyle.

This is what's a red flag to the Tucker crowd. It's the whiney victim mentality of "my thyroid gland made me fat". I think most of the venom has been directed not at those who acknowledge the causes of their obesity, but at the ones trying to portray it as a God-given attribute.

Yes, the Tucker people will leave this discussion eventually. But you're not going to be able to leave behind the large majority of society that they represent and speak for.

And lastly, please do not think I'm a fan of Tucker Max. As soon as I read his anal sex story on his website, I knew the man was making up his crap as he goes. If you've ever seen a bottle of Astroglide, you'd know exactly how implausible his story was. I think you'd have to be an utter moron not to be able to see all the cracks in his narrative, but gullible people are always a wonderful source of income, and never in short supply..


buffpuff, i didn't see you addresss ANY of this excellent counterpoint.....

Buffpuff said...

Well, since I'm not paid to do this, I figure I can respond to the posts I find less predictable and more interesting, y'know. But if you insist...

I'm not obfuscating diddly. If I was, as you insinuate, in denial about sedentary lifestyle being a possible contributing factor to fat I wouldn't have bothered to mention it in the first place. Indeed I could just as well have done so at the start, before following through with 15 - count 'em - other and, in my view, equally influencial factors. As it was I chose to list sedentary lifestyle, along with greed and apathy, at the end because they represent a common view which had, in my opinion, already been given more than enough of an airing. (And because these are the reasons invariably used to justify barrages of tedious verbal abuse).

While we are probably in agreement about sedentary lifestyle not being consducive to anyone's good health, it has to be said that many sendentary people remain quite trim, (Cigarettes? Coke problem? Thyroid inbalance? Eating disorder? Stress/lack of sleep? Dare I say it, metabolism?) Good health is not solely confined to the thin any more than bad health is the sole province of the fat.

As for I think most of the venom has been directed not at those who acknowledge the causes of their obesity, but at the ones trying to portray it as a God-given attribute.

I assume "acknowledge the causes of their obesity" means agree with a bunch of bigoted aresholes that they are fat for the reasons said arseholes believe they are.

It's a view. You can shove it up the orifice you're talking out of but, hey...it's a view.

buffpuff said...

Oops, sorry. That should have read "conducive" - before the grammar police get their stun-guns out.

Anonymous said...

don't you mean the spelling police?

and you're the only one who really brings up petty things like that.

Buffpuff said...

Sorry, anon; you're barking up the wrong pedant there. The only time I've ever voiced a grammatical quibble was on another thread entirely – though I've certainly had folk do it to me, (again on another thread). Get with the programme, ace.

Anonymous said...

I think the thin people are irritated with fat people are irritated because fat people like buffpuff just won't admit why. as much as you'd like to believe otherwise, most of us don't hate people with medical issues that cause them to be fat. hell, we don't even hate the fat people who eat too much and never move around. i just hate how they come up with all these bullshit reasons for why they're fat. abosolutely anyone who restricts their caloric intake and excersises will lose weight. fatties like buffpuff seem to have a real issue with that fact.

Anonymous said...

BORING. We've all agreed here a million times before that most / many / some people make typos and spelling mistakes, and yet we all generally get what they're trying to say. This ain't no spelling bee. Bringing up people's spelling mistakes and typos in your rebuttals is childish so please stop. We rarely did this before the Tucker Max people got here.

Anonymous said...

Don't know if she's out there still, but I want to thank buffpuff for the kind and thoughtful words last night to anonymous who likes big girls, said anonymous being me.

You have given me much to think about and act upon (in the minute incremental way in which I act on things, yes, but action is action however small, I guess) and besides had me laughing all afternoon as I kept repeating the phrase "self-opinionated oik"; I love that phrase:-)

Anyway, thank you. Though I don't know you, you are a friend.

Anonymous said...

I am within my BMI, barely, and my roommate is a good 20 pounds lighter than me and an inch shorter.
Guess who can run 2 miles in 18 minutes and who can pass the pack test for firefighting (45 pounds, 3 miles, 45 minutes).
Next, guess which roommate needs to drive to the track, and usually can only manage to walk .75 miles in about 18 minutes.
Not that everyone who is overweight is fit, but even when I weighed 45 pounds more (I have, thankfully kept it off for 5 years now) I could still walk more than she can.

buffpuff said...

Firstly, to Anonymous who likes big girls, you are more than welcome. I have met several older men who told me they’d felt societally pressured to date, (and even, in a couple of instances, marry) slender women in their youth, while sharing exactly the feelings you mentioned. Don’t wait till you’re in your 40s or even later to give yourself permission to follow your heart and body’s desire. In the course of my professional life, I was once surprised to find in an illustrator’s portfolio a poster promoting Allegro Fortissimo, a group of sassy, female French fat activists. I was amazed the young, slim Brit in question had even heard of them, and that got us talking on a more personal level. He confessed he was seriously smitten with a big girl who attended his French evening class and that he was terrified to ask her out because of what his friends might think. I gave him exactly the same advice I gave you, adding that she would probably be thrilled to bits, (he was, after all, personable, sensitive, intelligent and talented), and why waste two perfectly good hearts who might be happy together. I never found out what happened but I really hope he went for it.

Secondly:

I think the thin people are irritated with fat people are irritated because fat people like buffpuff just won't admit why. as much as you'd like to believe otherwise, most of us don't hate people with medical issues that cause them to be fat. hell, we don't even hate the fat people who eat too much and never move around. i just hate how they come up with all these bullshit reasons for why they're fat. abosolutely anyone who restricts their caloric intake and excersises will lose weight. fatties like buffpuff seem to have a real issue with that fact

Okay, listen up, Anonymous, because I don’t intend to say any of this again. I am in no position to know what made each of my fat fellow posters that way because,(and I reiterate),we're i-n-d-i-v-i-d-u-a-l-s, each fat for our own unique set of reasons.

Here are mine, since you are in no position to refute what I myself have lived:-

GENETICS
My family, descended from hardy Russian peasant stock on three sides, are genetically predisposed to storing fat efficiently. (Surviving harsh winters in shtetls for generations eventually makes for a slow metabolism). The women on my father’s side, whom I most strongly resemble, are also broad-shouldered, big-busted and apple-shaped – and have a tendency live forever, fat notwithstanding.

DIETING HISTORY
A great deal of fuss is made in the media these days about post-pubertal children who starve themselves, believing themselves to be fat or because they fear they will become so. (Of course, if the media didn’t demonise fat and promote freakishly thin adult role models in the first instance, this wouldn’t happen – but I digress). As an energetic ten year old with long, slender limbs and a rounder middle than my junior school medical examiner thought I should have, my serial-dieting, dutifully self-loathing parents were advised to put me on my first diet. This they did, believing as countless saps still do, that once I lost what (negligible) extra weight I was carrying, that it would magically stay off forever, allowing me to enjoy a carefree teenage existence. Instead I developed body dysmorphia and an unhealthy relationship with food – just like the kids who only think they’re fat do. (Word to the wise: just because a child is fat doesn’t make that mind-set any less damaging to said mind, body or self-esteem). As it happens, puberty rearranged my body more to everyone’s liking but although I didn’t actively diet again till my late teens, I frequently starved myself, skipping breakfast and lunch most days in the mistaken belief it was “good for me”. I also continued to believe I was fat throughout, judging myself virtuous or damned according to the number on the bathroom scales. At 5’ 3” I weighed about 120 lbs.

Then, after a somewhat indulgent vacation at 18, I hit 130lbs and, deeming this a tragedy of epic proportions, chose to get up close and personal with the good Dr Atkins, my sometime companion for the next 8 years. Atkins Mark One was very different to the current model; in addition to the no carbs rule, no fruit or vegetables were permited and certainly none of the full fat cheese and fried bacon nonsense which obtains today. Lean grilled meats, grilled or steamed fish, plain cottage cheese, poached or boiled eggs washed down with diet sodas, black tea and coffee plus the obligatory 4 pints of water a day. Way to not shit for a week, develop breath like a blocked public drain, crave disallowed foodstuffs with a passion...but – and here’s why it was my diet of choice – lose lots and lots of weight in a very short period of time.

And...put it all back on again – with interest – over the months that follow its cessation. (Please note I have not, Anonymous, at any point, refuted the fact that “absolutely anyone who restricts their caloric intake and exercises will lose weight”. Nor do I refute it now. Please refer to my previous post about recidivism. It doesn’t just apply to draconian fad regimes like Atkins. It applies in the case of every conceivable type of diet. Unless a highly restrictive diet, coupled with a rigorous exercise regime is adhered to for life, the weight will ALWAYS come back. I have seen it happen to every single dieter I know over and over again. The fact is, most people, unless they make a comitment to an actively athletic lifestyle, or get themselves a physically demanding job will not retain the loss). This brings me to my next contributing factor.

LONG TERM DEBILITATING ILLNESS
When I was 24, (and round about 140 lbs and counting thanks to my ongoing dalliances with Atkins), I started my own business. I was an artists’ agent – a job which keeps you exceptionally fit unless you can afford to take taxis. 5 days a week I lugged a succession of heavy portfolios the length and breadth of London. Back and forth I went from the nearest tube station to my office, a ten minute walk I completed, on average, 6-8 times a day in addition to the walking I did once I got off the tube and made my way to the offices of my clients. Anyone who says you can’t be fit and fat is talking arrant nonsense.

At 26 I got a virulent dose of glandular fever, (that’s mono to most of you). It left me with post-viral fatigue syndrome that rendered me seriously sick for almost 18 months and continued to recur for a decade. Although I strived hard to remain active, I simply lacked the necessary vigour to return to the job 5 days a week and ended up winding the operation down altogether and pursuing a part-time repping career.

Without the incidental rigorous fitness regime of that particular full-time occupation, I put on more weight but, by then, I’d discovered the concept of fat acceptance and decided I was through with dieting and self-denigration for good. After a good 20 years of practice, that means I refuse to take shit from ignorant, simplistic little twerps like Tucker’s muckers, I’m afraid.

MIDDLE-AGE
I suspect I’ve lived a great deal longer than most of my self-elected nemeses and have seen people keep their weight down by all manner of unhealthy means. Who is healthier do you suppose – me, who has made her peace with being fat, eats pretty well and endeavours to get in a brisk 20 minute walk every day? Or my cousin who has, over the years, kept her naturally curvacious body in obeyance by means of ecstasy, bulimia and unsustainable manic exercise? (Pregnancy, a c-section and middle-age have rendered her bigger than me, with the added bonus of fallen arches in less than a year, incidentally). These are not “bullshit reasons” or excuses, Anonymous, these are facts as lived by real people. Weight is not a simple issue, least of all in the fat-obsessed culture in which we live. I won’t own your accusations of slobbing out on the couch every night with a kingsize bucket of KFC because it simply isn’t true – of me. But, if it’s true of some other fat person, it still doesn’t make them any less entitled to basic human respect.

Dingus said...

Read the zig zag diet you fat retards. There's a reason people gain the weight back after dieting. It's because they didn't excercise or diet properly.

Archangel said...

Shit, I'm dragging myself into this again.

I think comparing my comment to that of bashing people's teeth in, is a bit harsh.

No one argument covers everything. I was hoping that people would see this, and actually place my statements into proper context.
I do feel it's ok to ridicule people over the internet, and if they can't handle it, they should have never come online in the firstplace.

I do not, however feel that it's ok to go around and knock people's teeth out, just because you can. If a skinny person would come up to me and did nothing but babble on and on about how being skinny is cool, I might punch him silent for annoying me, but that's it.


Now, I'm reading a lot of comments saying that Tucker is a fake. Where the fuck do you get this?

If you bother to dig around, you'll find a 2 hour radio show with him, Maddox and Nils, one of his friends. They talk shit and have fun while taking calls.
Tucker also tells one of his stories, and answers questions - including the one about the so called fakeness of his stories.

Tucker also has pictures, video clips and much more on his website, proving several stories.

Not only that, the man has been sued Twice.
So he'd have to have made up some pretty fucked up stories and gone really far to try and back them up, to actually be able to falsely get himself sued, don't you think?


It's tiresome to reason with you people, but I'll keep trying. It's not like I have much anything to do at 4.30 am. (I'm actually writing a website myself. And no it's not evil, nor anything nasty.)

ShortDave said...

Why, Archangel, do you think it is alright to ridicule somebody and not physically harm them? What is the difference really between scarring on the inside and scarring on the outside.
Also the internet was not created so that people could ridicule one another, so saying that if people don't want to be ridiculed they should stay off the internet really doesn't make much sense, as it seems to me that you would ridicule these people in real life as well although most likely behind their backs when you are with friends.

Like I said earlier though, I have nothing against Tucker Max, I am sure that his stories are exaggerated, but whose aren't. He is entertaining and that is all he needs to be.

One more thing though, this is not a fat acceptance website, why is that so hard to grasp, that people who are fat, and not actively trying to change it may not be fat acceptance activists, they might just be normal people who weigh more than you.

Anonymous said...

kate said: "You and the other fat advocates seem ecstatic when you can roll out the old 95% failure rate for diets (which one of the Tucker people quite conclusively showed was utter bullshit),

That poster did no such thing. S/he posted one comment by one doctor who happens to be employed by a weight-loss company. The study I referred to was done in 1992, NOT 1950-something as the other poster cited, and performed by the National Institutes of Health."


Kate, I posted the link about the 95% number being about as spurious a statistic as you can find. Again, you are engaging in the worst type of intellectual sloppiness here. Here's the article I posted yet again, since you obviously haven't read a word of it:

http://partners.nytimes.com/library/national/science/052599hth-weight-myth.html

Here are some things you did not seem to grasp:

1. The entire point of this article was that no one seems to know exactly where this 95% number comes from.

2. The 95% number is being taken as fact just by virtue of being bandied about.

3. The doctor is not "employed by a weight loss company". Unless you consider the University of Pennsylvania a weight loss company.

I spent quite a bit of time searching databases for this mythical 1992 study of yours. If you have an actual reference to the publication I would be overjoyed to see some proof of existence. If not, you need to quit slopping this misinformation around.

And since you have probably skipped through the last few paragraphs with glazed eyes, let's summarize: PLEASE post the reference to this 1992 study you are citing!!

Kate said...

I've seen the "95% of diets fail" statistic cited on literally hundreds of sites, all referencing a National Institures of Health 1992 Consensus Conference. After much digging, I finally found the text of the Conference Paper here.

Although the paper in question does state "most people who achieve weight loss with any of these programs regain weight," I find no mention of an actual failure rate; therefore, I apologise for disseminating the same misinformation so many others have. (Unlike some, I'm capable of admitting when I'm wrong.)

That said, the paper in question makes all sorts of conclusions that even it admits haven't been scientifically proven. It takes as given that any relationship between weight and disease is causal, with absolutely no scientific data to back that up.

It mentions the BMI and states that the government and the scientific community "have suggested slightly different desirable ranges of BMI." It also states that the "prevalence of overweight has increased during the last two decades" without any raw data on which to assess that statement. Are they are talking raw numbers? Percentages? By what standards? How much of that increase is due to the decrease in the officially sanctioned "healthy" BMI? Without knowing that, it's anybody's guess as to accuracy of the actual increase in obesity in America in that time frame.

The study did conclude that although dieting does help with certain diseases like diabetes mellitus and hypertension in the long run,
"[l]ong-term health effects are much less clear."

It also concluded that that more scientific study is needed and stated that "[o]besity in humans has a substantial genetic basis," and called for research into the genetic and environmental causes of obesity. It further stated that since "weight loss [is] associated with increased mortality," better scientific understanding of weight loss and its affects is needed.

"[W]eight loss [is] associated with increased mortality" - i.e. dieting can kill you.

Kate said...

Make that The study did conclude that although dieting does help with certain diseases like diabetes mellitus and hypertension in the short run, "[l]ong-term health effects are much less clear."

buffpuff said...

Read the zig zag diet you fat retards. There's a reason people gain the weight back after dieting. It's because they didn't excercise or diet properly.

No, halfwit, it's because they lacked the requisite interest to sustain a spartan diet and rigorous exercise programme for the rest of their natural lives. In other words, the life – or near as damnit - to that of a professional athlete. Which probably accounts for the high proportion of drive-by fat-bashers either being - or purporting to be - athletes. And for the seething resentment they harbour towards people who don't share their personal goals or value system.

Anonymous said...

buffpuff said: "No, halfwit, it's because they lacked the requisite interest to sustain a spartan diet and rigorous exercise programme for the rest of their natural lives. "

Well, when you say "interest", if you're really meaning "discipline", then yeah, you're 100% correct..

Why can't you just admit that it's a lack of willpower that causes you to fail, not an intrinsic defect in the diet? Yeah, sure, if I don't have the "interest" to fight off those alcohol cravings, my 12 step program probably won't work either. Why is the word "discipline" anathema to all you fat folk?

I read the Craigslist thread by the way. I am just going to quote one phrase here:

"Buffpuff's big-arse chocolate stick"

For those interested, if you'd like to read through the thread, you'll find a graphic example of what the US Army refers to as "stunning lack of motivation"..

Anonymous said...

Kate, OK, now we're getting somewhere..

What you posted is not a study - it's an assessment of a panel. After most of our conferences on topology/geometry, we spend about 30 min putting together a "list of important problems" which is published in the proceedings. Yes, I realize this has nothing to do with obesity, but it's the way it works in general.

I did read through the entire text you posted, and I want to point this out:

"In general, successful programs are those based on realistic goals that involve a caloric deficit leading to a slow, steady weight loss. Success requires a diet that can be adhered to long enough to reach the goal. Developing new dietary practices that could lead to a lifetime of weight control is also important. "

This is almost WORD for WORD exactly what we have been telling you. We have never advocated shock diets or fad diets, but always lifestyle change. Your own paper is saying the same.

Now what does YOUR paper say about being overweight? Let's take a look:

"Being overweight can seriously affect health and longevity. It is associated with elevated serum cholesterol, elevated blood pressure, and noninsulin-dependent diabetes mellitus. Excessive weight also increases the risk for gallbladder disease, gout, coronary heart disease, and some types of cancer and has been implicated in the development of osteoarthritis of the weight-bearing joints."

As far as weight loss being unhealthy? Let's look at this statement from YOUR paper:

"Among very obese individuals, weight loss has been followed by greater functional status, reduced work absenteeism, less pain, and greater social interaction. The prevalence and severity of sleep apnea also can be substantially reduced by weight loss, but monitoring for weight regain is important."

I'm not even sure why you posted this. The entire gist of this paper is that obesity is unhealthy, and that HAES is a joke.

Oh, and before I forget, your statement that "[W]eight loss [is] associated with increased mortality"

You seem to have forgotten a few surronding sentences. Why don't we put that in context in YOUR paper:

"Several epidemiologic studies raise the possibility that weight loss is associated with increased mortality. The relevance of these findings to voluntary weight loss programs is not yet clear."

So basically YOUR paper is saying not to trust that statement but to hold on for further results.

This is what you are basing your

buffpuff said...

Well, when you say "interest", if you're really meaning "discipline", then yeah, you're 100% correct. Why can't you just admit that it's a lack of willpower that causes you to fail...why is the word "discipline" anathema to all you fat folk?

Okay, Anonymous, since you claim to have read the Craigslist thread, I'm sure you won't mind if I repeat a couple of the things I posted on it in response to similar ignorance:-

I am not...too lazy to pursue your way of life, nor am I weak-willed. I’m simply disinterested. I have better things to do with my time; other life-goals more deserving of my motivation and discipline than espousing your value system. Been there; done it – for over half my life. Experience has taught me that the way I have choosen to live the latter half benefits my physical, mental and spirtual wellbeing a great deal more. I eat a well-balanced diet and exercise as and when I feel like it. Just not with the primary objective of losing weight

Fat is not a moral issue. It's a physical characteristic – and one of many which define me at that. I don't need to "find excuses" – or offer any – to defend my stance on it, least of all to some drive-by, fat-baiting troll. I don't have to "try harder" to transform my body into your idea of perfection. My body is not your concern
.

As to the ice cream you took out of context; if you seriously think that eating 3 or 4 of these during the course of an entire summer indicates some fundamental weakness of character you're an even sadder, sorry-arsed article than I originally took you for. If you have nothing of any value or insight to offer in response to the posts I have made on this thread then I suggest you give it up.

Kate said...

To Anonymous who continues to come here and tell us that we're sub-human for not espousing your value system without having the cojones to even use a name, I know that the paper was a weight-loss treatise. (Believe it or not, my fat does not prevent me from reading comprehension, in fact I was in the 99+ percentile in the Verbal portion of the Achievement tests.) Even so, it stated several times that not enough is known to make definitive conclusions. Then it proceded to make those definitive conclusions (i.e. "fat is bad"), anyway.

As for discipline, see buffpuff's statement above. It expresses my views admirably. I know exactly what it takes to for me to stay slim; I've done it. It takes being hungry all the time and working out a minimum of 6 hours a day. What's the point of prolonging my life if I hate every moment of it? If I had wanted to live a regimented life, I would have joined the military, thank you very much.

As it is, I read; I see movies; I go to concerts; I write execrable poetry; I walk; I play with my cats; I visit and talk with friends; I'm teaching myself to quilt and to make jewelry; in short, I live my life as best suits me, not you or others who would have me chained to a weight machine and a treadmill.

For the past five years, not only have I not lost more in productive time than my co-workers, but have been the workhorse of the company. I have put in the highest number of hours worked every year that I've been here, and our clients frequently request me specifically for projects. My boss complains that I work too damned much. Other than maternity leave, the person who has lost the most time for medical reasons is the slimmest person here, who is slender, but not emaciated.

Why you feel that in order to be morally and socially "worthy," people have to think and act as you do is beyond me. I may be fat, but I've never been intentionally cruel to anyone. As far as I'm concerned, that has a great deal more more "moral" worth than living on a starvation diet and spending hours every day at the gym, or trying to bully people to live their lives the way I do.

Anonymous said...

kate, I see you've gone off on another long winded rant. If you're so hot on reading comprehension, why exactly are you posting a paper that you don't even agree with?

I asked you for proof of this 95% study which you have cited multiple times. You posted a 1992 study which is completely irrelevant. Now you're calling it a "weight loss treatise". Well, is this the basis for your entire argument that diets are doomed to failure?

How much other misinformation are you basing your lifestyle on? Maybe this is the reason you cannot maintain a healthy weight easily. Here's a clue - if you need to workout daily for 6 hours (6 HOURS?? Is that a typo??) and starve to keep your weight down, you're probably doing something wrong.

Oh, and most people here are NOT using real names, you think shortdave and buffpuff are real? You'd have to be a total whackadoodle to post your real name on the web these days.

Kate said...

HEL-LO!!! As I stated explicitly, I posted the paper to concede your point. I had believed copious references to a document that it took me ages to actually find, and it didn't state what so many citations said it did. I was admitting that, in this instance, I was wrong, and giving the evidence that changed my mind, along with my impressions of the document in question.

is this the basis for your entire argument that diets are doomed to failure?

Absolutely not. You've ignored every other point I've made and I don't feel like repeating myself, yet again.

I also have my own experience on which to base my conclusions. No, six hours is not a typo. I am genetically predisposed to be fat and fighting it is basically a full-time job, whether you believe it or not, and one for which I don't care to apply. You say that must have been doing "something wrong," and I wholeheartedly agree; I was trying to defy my genetic makeup. As for my exercise routines, they weren't just whatever I decided to do, they were developed by professional trainers who were paid a pretty penny to do so; feel free to take up your objections with them.

Speaking of reading comprehension, I didn't suggest that you use your "real" name, simply "a name" that would differentiate you from the hordes of anonymi who spew the same judgment-filled invective you do. Trying to sort out which anonymous is vomiting vitriol gets more than a bit tedious.

Neither of us is ever going to convince the other of the validity his/her respective opinion and, quite frankly, I'm bored to tears with this discussion, particularly your terrier-with-a-bone devotion to a single point that I made and have conceded was wrong. Feel free to believe whatever you choose to and to churn out any other drivel you choose to, but don't expect me to respond.

Buffpuff said...

You'd have to be a total whackadoodle to post your real name on the web these days.

Why? Afraid some of us might might club together and hire a hitman? Or simply that your friends, (assuming you have any), might discover there's nothing you enjoy better than verbally harassing people you don't know over the internet?

I used my real name when I got into the British Press, incidentally, but I've no problem with pseudonyms. In fact I'm wholly with Kate - it would be handy to have some kind of method by which one might tell each of you dickwads apart.

Anonymous said...

Well, buffpuff, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and post your real name here?

(crickets chirping)

It shouldn't be too hard to tell me apart - I'm the only human-sized participant left in this conversation, and thus I shall be known by my new pseudonym:

- Human-sized

Buffpuff said...

Kiss my entirely human-sized arse, bub.


Oh, and I was born Michaela Ruth Taylor, by the way. Knock yourself out.

Anonymous said...

buffpuff, well, ok, you win, if you must know - I was born Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec..

Did a few quick database lookups - don't see any publications by a "Michaela Taylor"? Would you care to share a reference to your publication by the "British Press" - seeing that you're a published author and all?

- human-sized

ps: Kate, I apologize for being antagonistic. I could have phrased this better. If you WANT to lose weight, it's not as hard as you think it is. That is, if you drown out the noise from all the morons telling you it IS too difficult.. I looked at your blog and you were honest enough to tell your readers that your sources on the 95% deal might have been wrong - I respect you for that..

Oh said...

Oh Human-Sized, my dear dear little frat-boy, psuedo-intellectual wasteoid.

Why are you still here? Honestly, why? The two people who you are trying to 'stir up shit with' obviously refuted your points remarkabled and proved that you and the Tucker Max cronie-crew really are all drunkards. As to say, you all've completely killed off all of thier braincells with 'drunken exploits' or whatever you all do. Can you believe it, I'm fucking thirteen years old and I can see how immature and disrespectful to yourself and others you assholes are. How does that make you feel, really? A child has more common sense than you do.

Go get a fucking job.

Anonymous said...

buffpuff, you gave us the name you were born as. were you ever married? what's your name NOW?

And Kate, what's your name?

I don't see how creating an accounting and having a random screen name takes more "cojones" than just replying using anonymous.

Buffpuff said...

...if you must know - I was born Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec

Oh, so that explains the inferiority complex and corresponding compulsion to project your self-hatred onto others. Must suck having those wee little legs, Toulouse.

You asked me for my real name and I gave it to you. It's the one on my passport, birth certificate, household bills and tax statements. I just don't happen to write under that monicker. Nor, in point of fact did I say I was a press journalist. Do keep up.

if you WANT to lose weight, it's not as hard as you think it is. That is, if you drown out the noise from all the morons telling you it IS too difficult

What part of "our own individual experience has proved otherwise" are you incapable of grasping? There’s certainly no shortage of morons telling us it's easy, that’s a fact. And as long as creating and maintaining needless insecurity on a worldwide scale proves to be a nice little earner for those who profit from doing so, I suspect the cacophony will continue to be deafening.

The question is, (assuming you are not a gym owner, fitness instructor, pharmacologist, dietician, bariatric or cosmetic surgeon), why are you so concerned to drown out the barely discernable whisper of those whose experience echoes and corroborates our own?

Kate said...

Oy, the lack of antagonism didn't last long, did it?

Not that it's really any of your business, and whackadoodle that it makes me, my legal name is (and always has been) Katherine M Jones. I'm not any of the Katherine M Joneses that Google returns, BTW.

As for using a pseudonym, I do believe it takes more cojones to have an individual identity (even a made up one) than to be the indistinguishable from a dozen others. You are under no obligation to agree.

Oh Said... You are wise beyond your years. "my dear dear little frat-boy, psuedo-intellectual wasteoid" made me laugh out loud. You should seriously consider a career in writing.

Oh said...

Thank you, Kate. Though I'm more of an artist than a writer.

Anonymous said...

buffpuff said: "What part of "our own individual experience has proved otherwise" are you incapable of grasping? "

Well, duh, your individual experience has been to consistently fail. How much credibility are you going to give someone that has tried to stopped smoking in eighteen different ways and failed each time? No, you listen to the people who have actually managed to quit, not the ones who have tried and failed. Newsflash: the people mentoring in AA are those who have actually kicked the habit, not ones who claim laying off the sauce is too difficult.

The reason I don't like you preachers of failure is exactly why I don't like creationists or those that believe that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Too many problems stem from a bunch of bloated windbags slopping around misinformation, and you are about as bad as they come.

Oh, and by the way, where's your published work in tbe "British Press"? Michaela Taylor pulls up about 3 pages on Google, crap, I'm at 22 right now.

oh (the child) said: "Can you believe it, I'm fucking thirteen years old and I can see how immature and disrespectful to yourself and others you assholes are. How does that make you feel, really? A child has more common sense than you do."

I laughed my ass off reading this. First, learn some basic grammar skills. "Yourself" is singular and "you assholes" are plural, pick one. People will probably take you a lot more seriously when you learn basic English. Oh, also, if you're still referring to yourself as a "child".. you think maybes you're like not ready for the adult world yet? Get your dumb ass off to Myspace or something, you ain't ready to eat at the grown-up table quite yet..

- human-sized

Oh said...

'you think maybes you're like not ready for the adult world yet'

I wouldn't call that proper English either, dear.

Grammar or not, my point still stands. Your 'people,' human-sized, are self-righteous assholes who lack respect for themselves and others. Maturity doesn't lie in spelling, in lies in virtue. You and your peers are extremely immature.

Anonymous said...

Oh (the child): Yes, princess, it's called sarcasm. Us adults don't REALLY say "like" and "maybes" all the time, it was to make fun of you. It's sort of sad that you don't know when you're being made fun of. Are you really 13? If so, do you take a short bus to school? ZOMFG? Habla Espanol?

Sadly, "my people" happen to run the world. I own a business with 200+ employees, and you can bet your last twinkie I'm not going to hire some land-whale and pay in health insurance what 4 of my normal sized employees cost me. Just a dollars and cents decision, I've got nothing against the morbidly obese unless they're on the same flight as me..

- human-sized

peppa said...

Human-sized anonymous is the same jerk that posts the same crap all over the salon.com forum. He also lies (just like the tucker people).

buffpuff & Kate,

do not waste your words on this jerk, he's not worth it. He's a troll looking for attention. You gals are much too intelligent for these kinds of people.

Buffpuff said...

The reason I don't like you preachers of failure...is exactly why I don't like creationists or those that believe that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Too many problems stem from a bunch of bloated windbags slopping around misinformation, and you are about as bad as they come.

Why, thankyou for the compliment, Toulouse. Still projecting I see. (And I do get so tired of the continuous mention of morbidly obese people on planes. It may surprise you to know that if we had the misfortune to be seated along side each other on a flight you probably wouldn't even notice me. Yep, much as you may despair of my lamentable attitude, I do, in fact, take up just the one seat).

Re recidivism: apart from harranguing Kate because the information she was repeatedly led to believe came from a specified report which it eventually transpired detailed no such thing, I notice all you are doing in response to the reported 95% recidivism rate is parroting some unspecified piece of anti-anti-diet rhetoric, written by bugger-only-knows-who and proclaiming that the offending study was actually carried out on 12 field mice in 1907. Sorry but that doesn't negate my own personal experience either. (Which you can no more label misinformation than I can call you a liar for claiming to have 200+ employees at your beck and call. Though it does rather beg the question that, as a mighty captain of industry, you surely must have better things to do than spew hatred at a couple of random fat chicks on the internet? Like keeping tabs on whether those employees are actually doing any work?) Nor does your insistance that the figure is erroneous explain why the health and fitness industry continues to rake it in by the bucketload. Read my lips: if diets worked, these businesses would cease to be profitable.

There are lies, damn lies and statistics, short-stuff. It's interesting you mention the creationists. Personally, I find science is a lot like the bible in the way that bigots can extract random soundbites and use them to shore up their dislike of anyone who falls outside what they believe to be the acceptable societal norm. Science also, like the bible, contradicts itself repeatedly. But since you're so fond of it and all, I suggest you check out this piece on Slate concerning some further contributors to fatness I myself hadn't even considered:-

http://www.slate.com/id/2145689

Please note this is not a pro-fat piece by any stretch of the imagination, but it does give the lie to some of the more commonly entrenched beliefs about weight gain.

Failure implies a deep sense of shame and worthlessness, neither of which, I regret to inform you, applies to the way I feel about myself or the choice I made to get off the self-loathing, diet-go-round 20 years ago. You can't win, titch. So give it up and go check up on your employees. They might be wasting your precious resources and surfing for porn as we speak.

Oh said...

"Oh (the child): Yes, princess, it's called sarcasm. Us adults don't REALLY say "like" and "maybes" all the time, it was to make fun of you. It's sort of sad that you don't know when you're being made fun of. Are you really 13? If so, do you take a short bus to school? ZOMFG? Habla Espanol?"

First off, I find your use of the name 'princess' to be highly offensive and pedophilic. I'm pondering reporting it to the authorites as we speak.

Obviously, I don't use 'like' or 'maybes' either, sweetheart, so when you type like a dipshit it doesn't look like irony to me. It looks like you typing like a dipshit.

I am the age I stated, and it's still pretty clear that I'm much more intelligent then Mr. "I'm A Captain Of Industry Ho Ho Ho, But I Really Spend All My Time Bickering On The Internet." Short bus? Sorry, I'm in AP courses, if that was what you were insinuating. Habla Espanol? Non, je parle Francais.

"Sadly, "my people" happen to run the world. I own a business with 200+ employees, and you can bet your last twinkie I'm not going to hire some land-whale and pay in health insurance what 4 of my normal sized employees cost me. Just a dollars and cents decision, I've got nothing against the morbidly obese unless they're on the same flight as me.."

I highly doubt that. First off, if your business was said to "run the world," you'd have many more then a mere 200 employees.

Oh, and I don't eat Twinkies. Never have, never will. They look disgusting.

And why does anyone who disagrees with you suddenly, of course, unhealthy and morbidly obese? Because we value people for our common humanity? Oh.

Oh said...

Excuse my few typos, as I'm sure you're going to attack them, normal-sized. I do acknowledge them. I also acknowledge that it's 8 AM and I was up all night making money. So sorry.

Buffpuff said...

Yay! You go, Oh!

And, Peppa, you're quite right. Trolling the trolls, while entertaining for a while, stops me from attending to more creative pursuits. I resolve to leave Henri to talk to himself forthwith.

Oh said...

And I agree with buffpuff. This is just getting tedious, as it's obvious that 'normal-sized' is just a 23 year old in his mother's basement. I'm off for a swim, farewell.

Anonymous said...

oh: "I'm pondering reporting it to the authorites as we speak.

Har de har har! Pedophilic? WTF? Are you a native English speaker, because if so, you need to work a little harder on mastering your native tongue.. We're not speaking, PRINCESS, we're writing..

Ooohh.. yeah, I'm sure CERN will track me right through the proxies I am using and handcuff me. I'm so scared!!

Go play with your Barbie dolls, you little retard! Oh, I'm sorry, are you going to "report" me for that too??!!

Anonymous said...

oh: I'm just here to troll, if you haven't figured that out already.

Honey, you need to go away. You're here to "troll", and now you're playing the pedophilia card? I think you're doing more damage than good at this point. Do you have any parents in your house supervising you?

Anonymous said...

oh: "I'm just here to troll, if you haven't figured that out already."

Whooah.. I seem to have miscategorized you, oh (the child).. I thought you cared about the fatties. Now I realize you're just a troll like me. Welcome Sister!! Only 13? You have true potential, and you are now my favorite poster!

- human-sized

Anonymous said...

buffpuff: "Yep, much as you may despair of my lamentable attitude, I do, in fact, take up just the one seat)"

Hah, I knew it! If you only take up one seat, you're obviously not fat. You're just trying to shoehorn in on a movement you don't belong in anyways..

We're talking about the morbidly obese here. If you can fit in one seat, I'm guessing you're not 300, 400 lbs, etc.. So your interest is pretty much hypothetical at this point. Let's leave the fat acceptance discussions to those who are really fat please. You're basically like a white dude who's got a bad sunburn talking about how much it sucks to be colored..

buffpuff said...

Dang. I really must learn to resist the lure of the inflammatory statement...

If you only take up one seat, you're obviously not fat. You're just trying to shoehorn in on a movement you don't belong in anyways

Oh, really? On the original Tucker Max thread someone pronounced, "my girlfriends and I have the token "fat friend." Fat friend is really fat. Obese, actually. She's about 5'2 and weighs around 170-180ish".

Since this, (short of an inch in height), pretty much describes me while simultaneoiusly summing up the attitude of some of your fellow travellers, I think I meet the requisite requirements to partake in this debate.

Let's leave the fat acceptance discussions to those who are really fat please.

Yes, lets. Sod off.

Kate said...

You've seen my picture. Do you categorize me as fat? Yeah, I thought so and I'm nowhere near 300 pounds.

I, too, take up only one seat on the plane and I don't even need a seatbelt extender (except on Delta, which for some unknown reason, uses shorter belts). I know that the Delta bit is not just my imagination, because on the flight that I needed the extender, several slim (to the point of being skinny) people were complaining about how much more cramped the seats were than on any other airline. I still only took up one seat.

Anonymous said...

Kate, the only thing I can tell from your picture is that you have absolutely no taste in clothes. Honestly, you don't look fat. Well, at least by midwest standards. Here, you have women who come to the local buffet, and have to sit with their legs at a 90 degree angle so that their gut can hang between their knees. Come to a Walmart around these parts. If you are thin enough for your knees to support your weight while walking, you will not be considered fat..

You and buffpuff are basically like those whining 125 pound sophomores who go "oh my god, I gained 5 lbs, I'm a fat freak". If you can fit in s aingle seat on a 737, you're insecure, not a true fattie. Go to a few NAAFA conventions (I have btw), then you'll understand what the word "fat" really means.

buffpuff said...

Whatever.

And moving swiftly along....

littlem said...

"Let's leave the fat acceptance discussions to those who are really fat please.

Yes, lets. Sod off."

Speaking for the "NYC/Hollywood fat" contingent, since ANYONE in a double-digit size is perceived as fat here (and we get JUST AS MUCH discriminatory BS behavior from serotonin-challenged size 00s and the heinous frat boy intolerants like "anon" who drool over them, trust me), I really must say ...

AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The bottom line, "anon" you dolt, is that it's really about treating PEOPLE like PEOPLE, with RESPECT and COURTESY.
REGARDLESS OF SIZE.

That, sad as you may be to hear it, has nothing to do with your endless statistics.

Wrap your mind around it.

That is all.

buffpuff said...

I suspect it's a bit late in the day for ol' human-sized but, just in case he's still lurking...

As you know, I'm not one to pore over statistics but have, of late, come across several references to a three-year follow-up of participants in a commercial weight loss program conducted by Grodstein, Levine, Spencer, Colditz and Stampfer in 1996. The results of this study concluded that the recidivism figure in this group fell between 95% and 98%. You'll find it referenced by The National Eating Disorders Association on their website.

I'm just saying.

Amanda said...

It sounds like a lot of people trying to assert why they're better than other people. I was always a heavy girl up until about 2 years ago (no one still is sure how I lost the weight exactly beyond walking all over campus and learning to cook for myself), so I've been on both sides of the fence. Looking at the TM boards is funny to me, I read a post by one "former fatty" who is just as venemous as the rest of them.

Wendy Shanker has said that thin people hate fat people because of jealousy--they compare their self-control to what they see as what they want but can't have (the 'bad' foods, skipping the gym). I don't think that's quite it.

Personally, I think fat people receive such hatred because weight gain can happen to ANYBODY (and with as many overweight people in this country that has purportedly been claimed, it may be a legitimate reality). This scares some thin people shitless, because they are well-aware of how heavier people are portrayed and treated in our image-obssessed world. To calm their fears that they will never be that way, they tell themselves that they have personal characteristics that are conducive to their slim-ness and that heavier people lack these qualities. Hence, why fat people are seen as lazy, overindulgent, etc. (Here's a question: we expect a heavy person to eat all of the time, but how does a thin person explain away a binge? It's not because they're overindulgent, it must be something else.)

I don't know if this is exactly true, but it's a better rationale than "fat people are ugly to look at". Grow up--fat people know they're fat, and what they may be saying to themselves is a million times worse than your barbs, believe me. If it bothers you, don't look.

Fat Man said...

OK boys and girls!

I'm going to lay my cards on the table and tell is like it is!

Yeah! I'm fat! I'm 5 ft. 6 in. and I weigh 330 pounds, and I'm not going to go around being ashamed of myself just simply because I happen to be fat.

OK. I admit that I eat more than I should and I need to get more exercise, but if I choose to do so, it will be with the intention of improving my health, and NOT for losing weight. I don't believ that one had to be super thin in order to be healthy.

I've been told that I weigh at least twice what I should weigh, that I need to get down to 150 or 160 pounds or so.

Yeah, I guess I could restrict myself to 500 to 700 calories per day to stay down at that weight, and exercise 6 hours per day to prevent any weight gain.

Oh my! Now that sound like fun! Eating rabbit food and being chained to a tread mill, and struggleing to get down to what society dictates to be a socially acceptable size for me!

NOT!!!

What kind of life would that be? I would not have time to do all the other things that I enjoy doing in my life.

I have all kinds of hobbies to keep my mind busy. I like to do oil paintings, work on my N Gauge model railroad on a 5 x 8 foot layout that is wired to run four trains, and I'm currently writting a science fiction novel, there are so many other things I would rather do then starve mayself and work up a sweat.

Let me say, I'm not the least bit impressed by athletic abilities. So don't come bragging to me that you can run a 2 minute mile, or lift 300 pounds over your head.

Big fucking hairy deal!!! So what am I suppose to do? Fall on my big fat ass???

A horse can run faster than any man, and lift and carry more weight than a man! The lowely ant can lift 60 times its own weight!

Compared to most animals on this planet, we humans are soft and weak, and I'm softer and weaker than the average person.

Big fucking deal!!!

No, I'm not impressed by athletes, because Athletes produce nothing, except a strong musky locker room smell!

Now if you can write poetry, compose music, create works of art, do complex mathematical calculations, or write novels, or have been a activist in human rights issues, then I'll be impressed! Talk to me, I'll listen!

I would rather be fat, soft and weak, and live like a human being, and do what human beings do, instead of being strong, athletic, and only doing with my life what any dumb animal can do!

And so, I do the things I enjoy doing most. And yes, I enjoy eating, and I do so without any feelings of guilt.

Of course I do try to be careful what I eat, avoiding junk foods while getting plenty of vegetables and fresh fruit, and I do all of my own cooking instead of eating in fast food joints, and NO, I don't sit around eating twinkies all day long!

Yeah, I'm fat, and I'm perfectly comfortable, happy and contented being fat, and I would rather be fat and happy than to be thin and miserable trying to conform to what some bigoted knuckleheads deem to be a socially acceptable weight!

So, if some of you like eating nothing but lettuce leaves and running 30 miles every day, then be my guest! Don't let me stop you! Just don't impose your unhappy and pathetic little life style on me!

As for me, in the meantime, I'll just sit back and enjoy a 3 pound smoked salmon, some mashed potatoes with brown gravey and mushrooms, hot buttered broccoli with melted cheese, cauliflower, red beets, and for dissert, some pineapple slices, purple grapes, cantelopes with a scoop of ice cream, and some straw berries without the sugar, but topped with wipped cream, and wash it down with some Kosher wine.

And then after my meal, I'll just kick back and listen to some classical music and relax, and be fat and happy and contented.

Also, I have a better social life, sitting around with other fatties like myself and discussing all kinds of facinating topics.

While athletes are boring! HO HUM! All they do is talk a lot of Macho bullshit and verbally abuse people who don't quite meet up to they're so-called standards of physical perfection!

What good is it to have the body of a lean mean fighting machine and have the mind of a total moron.

I would rather be around other fat people who are kind and gentle than to associate with athletes who are rude, crude, and arrogent!

I rest my case!

Fat Man said...

Oh! And one more thing . . . . .

If you Macho Jockos don't like me calling you out on the carpet and exposing you for the bigoted morons that you really are then . . .

TUFF SHIT!!!

I really don't give a rat's ass what you think of us fat people!

Like, pardon me sir, but you must have me confused with someone who gives a flying fuck!!!

So, go ahead and call me a soft and weak cream puff, or a fat little sissy boy, I really don't give a tinker's damn!

I've heard it all, so you won't be telling me anything new, since you don't have the mind to come up with anything original.

Call me anything you like, just don't call me late for supper!