I've been on and off Weight Watchers ever since I was 15. It's usually about 1 month on, 3 months off, 1 month on, 3 months off. I can see how I've gained weight all these years. I'll gain 10 and lose it, gain 15 and then lose 10, etc. It's a cycle that I'm used to having done it so many times. And I like Weight Watchers, as I've mentioned here before. I think it's the only way I'll ever lose my weight...if I ever fully commit to it...which this week I am. My meeting leader was named Elaine and I really liked her. A no nonsense Jewish mother whose daughter actually attends her meetings. It's a dynamic I like and I thought she was great.
She actually started her meeting by saying that someone recently told her that she didn't praise weight loss enough. That other meeting leaders would spend the first 10 minutes giving stickers to those who had lost weight that week and could brag about it. I had a leader once that referred to it as bragging stickers. Because we're all still in kindergarten and need stickers to make us feel better.
Even when I lose weight I never raise my hand when asked "who lost weight?". It's embarrassing and I'm not the type of person who needs that sort of validation or a pat on the back. When Elaine told how she didn't believe on spending 10 minutes of a 30 minute meeting on praising those who lost weight, I felt like applauding. Another girl in the meeting spoke up and told Elaine that she liked that she (Elaine) didn't spend much of the meeting praising those who lost weight because it made her feel, if she didn't lose weight that week, that she was a failure. That she was there to learn and evolve and the scale should reflect if she should feel good about herself that week or not. Bravo to that girl.
So, there I sat, thanking Elaine for having the chutzpah to say that your weight loss for that week is just a number and not a reflection of your self worth. I thank you Elaine...thank you for making me want to come back, even if I gain 4 lbs that week because cheeseburgers are just that good.
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 231 of 231Why is it that when a fat person says we should be treated with common human decency, they're accused of putting on blinders or rose-colored glasses and dancing around saying "la la la being fat is GREAT!" I want to lose weight and be healthy. I know all about nutrition and exercise, etc. etc.
When you are really fat, it's not as simple as eating right and exercising because there are so many factors involved that keep us where we are, no matter how we struggle.
I have lost weight before--a lot of it. And I've lost and gained and lost and gained and lost and gained. But I definitely think that whether you still think it's worthwhile to keep trying, or that you're tired of fighting and want to make your body work for you as it currently is, we all still deserve to be treated like adults and to not be browbeaten by fanatical assholes on a blog written by fatties for fatties and the friends of fatties.
anon at 3:23pm - I don't think any of the people here want to keep you from being fat, if you CHOOSE to be fat. But on the other hand, we don't want to have you spilling over into our laps on the airplane or subway. Or to pay for your healthcare or have to subsidize oversize ambulances and hospital beds for you. If you pay your own way, you can do pretty much whatever you want.
Also, you DON'T know all about nutrition and exercise, or you wouldn't be gaining and losing weight repeatedly. Same question the other guy asked - if you know so much, why do you keep failing?
Allison - your original post seemed to state that you decided to lose weight to get better at certain activities - not that the weight loss was just a side effect. Hence the confusion. Also, fat football players are NOT healthy, put them on a rugby field and have them try to run for an hour and see what kind of shape they're in. Modern American football is basically sumo with pads.
Well, anonymous at 3:43, I would put my *knowledge* about nutrition and exercise up against yours anyday. I'm smart enough to differentiate between knowledge and the difficulty of putting it into lifetime practice.
I was an athlete in high school and college. I've got the medals to prove it. Unfortunately, I was a teenage girl who "learned" that I was considered fat at a healthy 5'7", 150 pounds, size 10/12 who could walk, run, bike, hike, swim, etc. etc. The only way I could get my bones to protrude, the standard of beauty at the time, was to starve myself, which I did successfully for long periods of time, but couldn't keep up long-term. The screaming kicker is that weight lost that way comes back quicker, but no one told me that at the time. Instead, the only thing I got was encouragement for how I looked when I starved myself. So I tried again and again until I had succeeded in thoroughly screwing my metabolism and my body image up, which led to depression and anti-depressants (which can contribute to weight gain) and other types of acting out, like smoking. I've been to Weight Watchers and been on doctor supervised diets, among others, and I can tell you the details that differentiate all the popular diets from each other, the serving sizes and caloric values of proteins,fruits, vegetables, fats, etc. I know how much exercise it takes to burn x number of calories. I know lots and lots and lots of crap, like every other person who has an obsession with food, whether they can't make themselves eat or make themselves stop. What has made me as fat as I am now? Primarily yo-yo dieting, which lead to compulsive eating, where successes followed by failures feed the problem and I've gotten fatter and fatter.
I can follow follow a diet and tell you how many calories of what type of food I've eaten for every day for 3, 6, 9 months--but it's impossible for me to maintain perfection permanently, and my body image has gotten so messed up that I have no idea what I really look like no matter how thin or fat I am. One of the problems with having a weight problem is that your perceptions are screwed up and you have difficulty seeing things clearly.
(And please don't tell me that this is where assholes like you come in--to give us fatties your enlightened perceptions while reminding us how much you hate sharing a planet with us. It's not helpful--it compounds the problem--not that you care, because it's people like you that contribute to our obsessive complexes in the first place.)
This may sound like a FA rant, but it's not. I'd gladly drink the Koolaid if I could find Koolaid I believed could work forever. I know I have willpower because I quit smoking and have done a number of other things in my life that have required will and determination and staminia. But being fat and losing weight is not as simple a problem as you simple-minded people would like to make it out to be. And frankly, if you haven't walked in our shoes, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
So, if an alcoholic who knows that drinking is bad for him and knows all the strategies for avoiding drink happens to fall off the wagon, does that mean that he didn't know what he knew? It doesn't always matter how willing the spirit is, because the goddamn body is weak.
As for the expenses you bear because all of us horrible fat people: I have to pay for a lot of things which have nothing to do with me personally, either. Sucks, doesn't it? But I guarantee there's something about you that someone else has to subsidize in some way whether they like it or not.
My guess is that there are a lot of fat people who don't go to the doctor because the experience is generally a soul-sucking nightmare, so I doubt the perceived overburdening is as extensive as you think.
What was your point, anyway? Was it just to be critical, because your comments certainly weren't constructive. But that wasn't your objective anyway, was it? You just wanted to spew some hate, which just makes you a pathetic little mean person who gets his kicks polluting a blog that has nothing to do with him.
Or, maybe I'm being too harsh on you. Since you obviously consider yourself to be a model of citizenly perfection (since you're so willing to point the finger at others), perhaps you could kindly explain how you came to possess no appreciable flaw at all? I'd at least like to know how you lost the oodles of weight that qualifies you to be such an expert on the subject.
And forget me, anyway. What about Oprah Winfrey? If losing weight and keeping it off was easy, don't you think someone like her would have been able to take care of the problem permanently? She hires chefs, nutritionists, and personal trainers, but still struggles. Why should you think it would be any easier for those of us out here that weigh more and don't have a fractional fraction of her resources?
Allison - your original post seemed to state that you decided to lose weight to get better at certain activities - not that the weight loss was just a side effect. Hence the confusion. Also, fat football players are NOT healthy, put them on a rugby field and have them try to run for an hour and see what kind of shape they're in. Modern American football is basically sumo with pads.
It's never that black and white. I initially wanted to lose weight because I was upset that I could not do those activities. But obviously exercise was a very big part of my program and I trained specifically for running and to a lesser extent tennis (my activities of choice). Because I trained for these events I lost weight. But because I wanted to do these events I decided to lose weight. A little chicken and egg thing there.
Again, please read my post carefully. I said that there are probably football players out there that carry more body fat than I do that can run faster than I can. I didn't make any assumptions that all football players are healthy. Maybe they are and maybe they aren't. But I know that there are some people out there that carry more fat than I do that can do more physical stuff than I can. (This is because they also carry more lean body weight than I do.)
And If you look at running backs and corners there's no way football is sumo wrestling with pads. Football is a dichotomy. On one hand you have a bunch of huge immovable weights on the line, and on the other hand you have super fit incredibly fast guys in the back.
Umm, alright.
Getting back to WW, can I say that I immensely enjoy the "science center" on WW.com?
Allegedly the whole "the more you yo-yo, the harder it is to lose" idea is a myth.
My personal experience was that yo-yo dieting set me up to expect failure. It didn't affect my metabolism at all. I know this because I had been very fat - BMI 50.1 - for years. I had lost maybe ten pounds and then put it back on at least ten times.
Then I was faced with the choice of a future knee and hip joint replacement or losing about 100 pounds. I was shocked into actually keeping to 1500 calories a day for as long as it took, for the first time in my life. And it worked. I didn't even consciously exercise, though as I got lighter I moved much more quickly (and more often).
It really was that simple, BUT it wasn't easy. There were days when I used up my entire 1500 on one takeout. Other days when I couldn't stop thinking about what I mustn't have. And, even more difficult in some ways, stopping myself from doing the little things I had always done, like having biscotti with coffee, waffles for breakfast, a sandwich whenever I felt even slightly peckish, chocolates or birthday cake with co-workers,the whole unthinking social enjoyment of food or the comfort of giving myself a little treat whenever I felt tired or down.
What I'm saying is, there's no painless way of doing it if you are fat and want to lose weight. However motivated you are there will be days when your goal fades into the background and you just want to give yourself a break.
So I never blame anyone who doesn't feel the need to put herself through that. I did it for myself because it felt right for me. I don't believe that gives me or anyone like me the right to lecture others. My comment about yo-yo dieting is just to illustrate that perhaps people obsess too much about so-called scientific studies, and they can lead to decisions based on fear rather than listening to your inner voice.
And I have to say, when I was fat, ridicule or rudeness or even polite concern had no effect on me at all except to make me wish people would take a look at themselves before judging me.
Anonymous 2:20--thank you for your reasoned and well-articluated comments.
I don't necessarily believe that yo-yo dieting screwed up my metabolism, but I know that starving myself in my teens and early twenties did, at least for a while, when I packed on the majority of pounds I'm still trying to lose. I do know that I didn't start binge eating until the fifth or sixth failure. But I do believe that's a personal truth, not necessarily true for eceryone.
Maybe the actions themselves necessary to lose weight are simple--but I think the psychology of some people (at least, myself)who've struggled with weight makes those simple actions/changes incredibly difficult to realize. Because of long term weight problems beginning in adolescence, I think I lack the signposts that tell a person when to stop eating or start exercising and when my weight has become a problem again. It's hard to explain--the only thing I can compare it to would be if you took a cat and cut off its whiskers and it had to try to find its way around. When it comes to weight loss, inside my head, I feel like a cat without any whiskers.
I actually don't read scientific studies about weight loss, because I think statistics are easily manipulated and ripped out of context by people on both sides of the argument. I've been trying to figure out for myself what's gone wrong in the past and have been trying to figure out what it takes for me to be healthy or happy. There have certainly been (several) times when I've had the bright-eyed look and enthusiasm of the new convert who's just found the diet that works for them--unfortunately, I've fallen back on the heap each time, disillusioned and I'm currently just plain tired.
For what that's worth.
About WW--I think it can help people lose the weight, but I don't know how successful it is long-term at solving the pyschological issues that manifest themselves in the physiology . . . .
Was anonymous at 4:38.
AMAZING.
Amazing essay at link. About how hard it is to lose weight.
A must-read. TRUST ME.
http://naamah-darling.livejournal.com/219531.html
Because of long term weight problems beginning in adolescence, I think I lack the signposts that tell a person when to stop eating or start exercising and when my weight has become a problem again.
Anon - I, too, have had long term weight problems beginning in adolescence (actually mine began when I was a toddler, but you know what I mean). But it's really not that difficult. Stop eating when you feel full - not stuffed. Start exercising today and exercise every day (or nearly every day) for the rest of your life. And your weight has "become a problem again" when the number on the scale goes up. But if you take the first two steps, your weight should slowly decrease.
Yeah, I know that's all easier said than done, but trust me, it really is that simple. Good luck.
Forgot to say - Dr Phil's "Ultimate Weight Loss Solution" is pretty good on the psychological aspects of weight loss.
Marla - you are a stone cold bitch and boring to boot! Instead of offering patronising advice, why aren't you out helping meth addicts?
Just prempting all the comments you're going to get. ;-)
http://naamah-darling.livejournal.com/219531.html
Yep. She was describing my life. Thanks for posting this.
Wait, Marla, if the number on the scale went *up,* wouldn't that be from gaining muscle mass because of exercising everyday like you advocate?
Or are women not supposed to have muscle mass either?
Actually weight usually goes up from water weight. Especially in women. Because of that even if your weight goes up one day it doesn't necessarily mean you're gaining weight. That's why you need to keep a record of your weight over time if you're interested in finding out if you're gaining or losing. Then you can find a moving average.
Wait, Marla, if the number on the scale went *up,* wouldn't that be from gaining muscle mass because of exercising everyday like you advocate?
Or are women not supposed to have muscle mass either?
Of course women are meant to have muscle mass, but you can't automatically assume that an increase in weight is muscle and not fat - or as Allison points out - water. The best way to check your bodyfat % is by using calipers. Or just by taking your measurements and/or checking the fit of your clothes. For example, if you've lost a pants size but your weight is the same or even slightly higher, that means you've replaced fat with muscle.
I don't want to replace fat with muscle, I just want the fat to go away. The muscles I've already got underneath the fat will do just fine as they are.
Huh? I just caught up. The statement below was listed as being judgemental:
Good Lord, whatever happened to personal responsibility?
In what school of thought is that statement "judgemental"? We all have to accept personal responsibility for our health and our size, whatever that may be.
May I suggest pubmed central or some other peer reviewed studies on such things as insulin resistance, obesity dieting setpoing, lipostat etc.
Here is the basic reason for failing to eat less and lose weight permanently, it is physiological, pure and simple. It is biology. has nothing to do with morality.
when you stress a muscle survival mechnisms kick in to repair the damage and make it less vunerable to damage. when you stress the fat cells you set up the same survival mechnisms which is making the fat cells stronger at storing fat and keeping it to prepare for the next time you are starving again.
Hormones are released when you use your muscles stressing them as it were to repair them, to store up more glycogen stores then before and of course make them less prone to injury doing the same activity.
When you undereat for whatever reason, you don't even have to be dieting, depending on your genetics for survival triggors you set in motion hormones geared to build up fat reserves to keep you alive presently and for the future. YOur body can prepare for the future based on past experiences. so you undereat lose weight and whammo you find your hunger builds (your body can save up hunger or you build a hunger debt just like a sleep debt) until you can't stand the famine any longer and you binge, overeat and then of course you blame yourself. Don't.
The cure for obesity is not a cure at all. It is based on morality. YOu overeat get fat so undereat and get thin, if you had any character you could do it if you really wanted to.
Rather they need to focus on the physiological cause and leave morality in the church on this one.
I would love to lose alot of fat simply because it is a burden to my desire to run, but I know how I got it in the first place. I know eating less stressing those fat cells causes wieght rebound (excess appetite that even saint peter couldn't resist after a while) and the diet goes to waste.
I know how to raise my setpoint now if I could figure out how to lower it then I would be set.
by the way you can gain weight on a 1200 caloire diet, it is called binging, 1200 caloire diets will inevitably lead to it, weight regain and then some for 98 percent of people.
and morality has nothing to do with it.
RR
If it comforts you to believe that,fine. But isn't it a pity that people all over the world who are genuinely hungry don't seem to develop this mysterious capacity to store fat indefinitely no matter how little they eat.
Isn't it a pity that people like you have to come to this blog and expend energy telling fat people they're horrible, lazy, moral reprobates (and maybe you didn't say those words specifically, but you sure as hell implied them)because they're fat and blah blah blah "think of all the starving children in Africa" blah blah blah. One of the reasons some of us have screwed up ideas about food, hunger, and satiation is that we were browbeaten as children to clean our plates (hungry or not) with the accompanying mantra "think of all the starving children," blah blah blah. Peddle your aspersions elsewhere, dumbass. You know nothing about how the human body works.
Is it the case that anyone who eats less than they have been accustomed to will end up with a slower metabolism? Does the body have a starvation mode trigger at a certain calorie level or does it vary with each person? Is this accepted medically? My doctor has always told me that because I am fat I use more calories than average.
1.41, I reiterate what I said in a previous thread, since it would appear to be of relevance here:-
There is a distinct difference between all-out, total starvation, (such as experienced in certain parts of Africa, for example, or in German concentration camps, where starvation rations were compounded by the practice of working people to death), and learning to survive on a poor or limited diet in harsh circumstances. Remember the Cold War, the old Iron Curtain? Ever seen news footage of impoverished Russians lining up for hours to get their hands on a couple of cabbages or a loaf of bread? See many skinny ones, did you? No. Me neither. Likewise you'd be similarly hard-pushed to find a single slender body among my peasant forbears, who fled the pogroms for the UK and America at the turn of the last century.
RR, I'm right with you.
One of the reasons some of us have screwed up ideas about food, hunger, and satiation is that we were browbeaten as children to clean our plates (hungry or not)
That was when you were a child. You're an adult now, so stop blaming your parents for your weight. YOU, and only you, are responsible for what you put in your mouth. Grow up.
My forebears were Irish peasants. Ireland was not the land of plenty back then. There wasn't a fat one among them.
How does being expected to clear your plate in childhood explain take-out binges and non-stop snacking in adulthood?
How does being expected to clear your plate in childhood explain take-out binges and non-stop snacking in adulthood?
My question exactly. But some people need to "blame" their obesity on someone or something else, KWIM?
May I suggest pubmed central or some other peer reviewed studies on such things as insulin resistance, obesity dieting setpoing, lipostat etc.
Snooze... yet more rationalisations. RR - you are full of it.
I know how to raise my setpoint now if I could figure out how to lower it then I would be set.
You do know how to lower it. Just admit that you don't care to do it.
Maybe the lady who's like a cat with no whiskers, the lady who was forced to clean her plate as a child and rr should get together and compare all the reasons they're still fat.
Look if you choose to remain fat, that's fine and dandy. Just spare us the BS, okay?
Well if we're going to take that attitude gummi bear, why don't I call oall of your and your friends' reasons for dieting BS as well?
Why are we assigning "good" and "bad" to dieting and not?
Anon @ 5:17, I'm not assigning "good" or "bad" labels to dieting, or not dieting.
Like I said, if you don't care to diet, that's fine and dandy. Just don't blame your issues with food/inability to lose weight on your parents' insistence that you clean your plate, insulin resistance or claim that you're "like a cat with no whiskers".
Just admit you don't care to diet and/or exercise and we'll all be a lot happier.
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