I've been on and off jdate for years. It's sort of like craigslist, but a bit nicer because the guys actually pay for it. I know, pretty effin classy. I'm not a member, but sometimes, on occasion, I'm contacted by a Jewish boy who claims to be nice and claims to think, from what he's read, that we'd get along and that I'm pretty funny. Then they ask what Rubenesque, the body type I have chosen to reflect my personal weight, means and for some reason, I sit there and try to defend myself. So, the following is, verbatim, what was emailed from one of these men, to me.
Him: What does rubenesque mean in your book?
Me: Rubenesque in my book? I'm not thin by any means, but I'm also not grotesquely large... I have a belly and I have thighs and all that jazz...I hate the term BBW though. Do you like girls with curves?
Him: Thanks for your honest depiction of your body. Honestly, I start with the face and the eyes. Sure, I would like to be dating a model and would prefer girls who are in shape, but nobody's perfect. I guess there is "a tolerable range". I don't have it committed toa #, b/c I have no concept about women's weights. I know when I see. I don't mean to sound superficial, but every relationship is built on some type ofinitial attraction. Of course I like curves.
I'm still unsure as how to respond. Why, in all that is sane, would a boy who sees a girl that obviously isn't thin, and then write to her, if he's looking for a thin, "modelesque", girl? I think my favorite part of what he wrote was that nobody was perfect. "I like super models, but nobody is perfect". Well, obviously supermodels are perfect to him, which, by the way, is hilarious to me. I also don't know what ofinitial means...seems as though we don't have a real winner in the spelling department. But, above that models are perfect, he then goes on to state, that of course he likes curves.
A little memo to men out there...there is a difference between girls that have curves and girls that have curves. All girls have curves...we all have hips because of that little thing called child birthing, and yes, some hips are wider than others, but I hate when a guy says he loves curves and means that he loves when a girls hips jaunt out. Maybe, next time, a guy can just specify if he likes hips or he likes multiple curves in multiple areas....because that's what I seem to be packing.
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28 comments:
I LOVE "multiple curves in multiple areas". HA! I think that really works.
Because of linkages between the left and right cortices of the brain that women have that men do not (I've had cause to look up the neuroscience), men are much less articulate about what they look for in a "relationship match" than women - at least on the net, but they aren't lying when they say they "know it when they see it". (Something to do with vasopressin as well as testosterone.)
Meanwhile, if I can be so bold as to take a stab at the subtext of what you're getting at, Professor Hugo has a post about it here.
I am still thinking about your boobs which you wrote about a while ago. I'm thinking about my boobs too. I had to buy a "special" bra today to go with a cocktail dress that is being made for me. The bra is black, strapless, very low in the back and partially composed of silicon. If that sounds partially horrifying, you're right.
(ofinitial = of initial)
He sounds like a real ass!
i was once a Jdater myself... *frowns*
In many ways, i understand your frustration!
*HUGS*
I always wonder how in shape guys who want to date supermodels are themselves. Too often I've encountered overweight men who demand that the women they date be thinner and prettier than they are and fail to see any hypocrisy in this.
It is everywhere, unfortunately. While I was heavy an aquaitance of mine who is a triple threat- obese, unnatractive and unpleasant, informed me randomly one day that I would be hot if I lost weight, but until then we were just friends.
I lost weight.
We don't talk.
I hope you find the nice Jewish boy you're looking for. You deserve it.
I don't even go onto the dating sites anymore. It's just too hard.
My solution to this problem is to date a Carribean man. Mine is a big fan of "multiple curves in multiple areas." I'm am sure that there are some men out there who are Carribean and Jewish. Also, gobetty, where did you find this "special bra?" As one with big girls who likes strapless dresses, I have yet to find a strapless bra that doesn't make me want to wear a normal bra and not care that my big straps are showing.
Dear Jan,
Please send us a picture of you and your husband. We're curious:)!
fatty.mcblog@hotmail.com
Thanks!
The Fatty McBlog Girls
OMG that man sounds like a total jackass. The next time you get asked the Rubenesque question,tell him to either google the name Ruben or to look up the artist in any Art History book. Mention you may get back to you when he's better informed because your time is too precious to waste on educating the masses.
Starla, I think the artist's name is Rubens.
Hoo boy. I can't tell you how much of my life I've wasted considering this phenomenon, and related phenomena. I totally agree with those who, like Hugo and company, say that men use women's size and looks to shore up their own social and sexual worth. I don't doubt this for a second. And I do think that, although women do this too, men do it much, much more.
And yet. And yet "beauty"--whatever that means to you, and yet for how many of us does it mean pretty much the same old stereotypes?--and yet beauty evokes such a very visceral response. Let's say I've got two male students; both smart (a huge component of beauty for me), both witty (ditto), both good writers (sigh), justifiably confident, both plenty attractive enough to date if I weren't a) their prof and b) old enough to be their freakin' mom. (Slaps self. Bad Dobby!) But one's sort of unconventionally attractive--large, tall, slightly "overweight" even though I know he's also super-fit, uneven features, shaggy clothes. The other...well, he's a beauty. Medium-tall, slender, blonde (even though I normally go for dark), good dresser, and pretty, pretty face (that is, very symmetrical features, gorgeous eyes, yada yada yada.) Even though I think doing anything more than looking at a student (a few times, out of the corner of the eye) is pretty much a killing offense, I've looked at these two guys. But which one do I have the coded-but-sweaty dream about? The beauty. Damn it.
So, even though I'll be the first to pick up the stick to swat a trophyizing, hypocritical, double-standard man upside the head...I also wonder about that beauty thing. Even allowing that beauty is acculturated and relative, I don't know how much I can blame men--especially knowing how visual most men are--for that instant response to "beauty" in women. Or youth, for that matter. 'Cause I know what I dreamed about, and even though it's shallow and stupid and acculturated, it's also real. Even though I myself would never, ever measure up to the standard my dang subconscious just set.
--Cat
Hey nana, the bra is from a maker called Fantasie of England. This is the bra -
http://www.laurensilva.com/Fantasie_of_England_Ivory_Rose_Bridal_Backless_p/fant-891x.htm
I am rocking the 2nd or 3rd largest size they make 38DD or so.
I bought it at Avec Plaisir Fine Lingerie in Toronto for $99 CDN.
The maker makes "bigger" bras, as they say
nana, my sister also subscribes to the Caribbean man thing. She is shorter and much larger than me and a total dude magnet. Another curve-lovin culture is India - dudes from India appreicate meat on the bone. When I was in biz school doin the International thang, my Indian friends had mad props for my ass and tits.
As a reply, may I suggest:
"Myself, I prefer multi-millionaire body-builder neurosurgeons with a 9" penis, but nobody's perfect, right?"
Oh my God. For the first time, I disagree with most of your commenters. And honestly, I differ with what you have to say (which leads me to my first post on your site.)
This guy *does not* sound like a jackass, and it seems you're reading *way* too much into his initial lines of his email. He simply asked what "Rubenesque" meant "in your book" - it doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't know who Ruben is, and what the subjects of his work were like. He wants to know what *you* mean by the definition. Quite frankly, I've seen some dating sites where women say "I'm curvy" or "voluptuous" and it turns out they're the size of Mrs Grape. It *is* misleading, to be honest.
The first thing he said was, he starts with the face and the eyes. He probably felt like he had to defend *himself* and felt stupid for asking the question. As for "dating a model" and "girls who are in shape" - he's basically saying to you what the stereotypes of every man have. I mean seriously, if he said "I like fatties", would you be less offended? I doubt it. In fact, I don't htink there's *anything* he could have said that would have left you unoffended - which is more your problem than his.
As to how to respond? Talk to him. I don't know what else his email said (I'm sure that any correspondence between the two of you didn't focus on your weight - otherwise you never would have responded to him at all) - if you just focus on "the weight thing" and read into it too much, then you'll never get to know the guy. Just talking to him doesn't mean you're dating, and you never know. His repsonse seems, actually, quite reserved and a sincere attempt to be honest without being hurtful.
I hate to sound like the official "troll" here, but the guy sounds like he wanted an honest answer to a question, and you gave it to him. He appreciated the honesty, and it looks to me like he added a slight bit of humor with the stereotypical "man wants model" thing. Honestly, if he were a jackass, he'd probably waste no time in telling you to move your "fat tail" elsewhere (I've had that said to me before) - but his response, to me, said "Weight really isn't a major issue for me, unless you are 400 pounds and are in a wheelchair." To me, he's saying he wants someone who takes care of themselves - and just because you're overweight doesn't necessarily mean you don't appreciate yourself, and he's willing to look past that.
I just think you're reading too much into it - if you're on a dating site, you get questions like this. It's a fact of life. The question has been asked and answered, and I think in such a way that was actually as respectful of your feelings as he could attempt (it *is* an uncomforatble subject). I'd say don't judge him prematurely. Yes, he may be a jackass - but what if he's just a sort of fumbler but a really nice guy? Don't judge him just because you think *you* are being judged.
By the way, I didn't see anyting in there that said "I like supermodels, but noboday's perfect." I saw a guy trying to be funny with the model stereotype, but he knows that the chance of that happening is about as good as me winning the lottery twice in a row. And he ends it with "of course I like curves" which says to me that he *isn't* looking for a supermodel at all - he's a realist who's genuinely interested.
Don't brush him off because you have an issue with yourself, and you're reading into someone else's words. If you *really* want to pursue a relationship with *anyone* you're going to have to accept that online dating gets these questions frequently, and when you get an answer like this, it's surprisingly refreshing. Move past it and talk to the dude - you might find he's exact;y what you're looking for (then again, you may not - but how will you know if you jidge him on words that you're putting into his mouth?)
I'm stepping offf the soapbox now!
RUBENS not Ruben.
Ruben is my uncle, not a Flemish Baroque painter.
Please, you're hurting me.
Shelly,
I rarely respond to comments on this site, but I just wanted to let you know that I did write back with a real picture of myself and, I was in fact, too fat for him. He said so.
Also, while I normally wouldn't represent myself as Rubenesque, because as a former art history major, I know that I am beyond Rubens proportions, that was the only description they have for a woman of weight.
I never refered to him as a jackass and I don't think he was judging me, but I do think he should stick to girls who do not put rubenesque on their profiles.
Emily
See, *now* he's a jackass :) (And no - I was referring to the other commenter's description as a jackass - not yours :) )
Still, that explains why he asked what "Rubenesuqe" meant in your book, if that term is the only once supplied by the site! I just didn't think that question was rude, in the wonderful world of online dating - however, you are right - if he wants teensy chicks, he should avoid the "Rubenesque" description of women and stop making people feel like crap because of it.
I agree with Shelly's first comments.
A picture speaks a thousand words.
I reckon we'd all be better off if we could see what the other person looks like before responding to a personal ad.
I agree that pictures would eliminate some of the subterfuge and confusion over body type. I have no idea how others perceive my weight; I'm clearly not skinny, but I don't know that I fit the other descriptions, either. I think about doing online dating, but the weight/body type issue always gives me pause and I chicken out.
Yep, online and offline dating (personal ads in local papers, telephone dating, etc.) for us fat ladies can, for the most part, suck. I remember I was talking with a guy through a telephone ad service, and he proceeded to tell me that he was 5'6" and 275 pounds, but that it was "all muscle," *snort*, and that he didn't like fat women. I was thinking, "Okay, but, aren't you fat, too?" Yes, I know, fat men are not obligated to prefer and exclusively date fat women, but sometimes, they can't see the forest for the threes. Here it is, again, with the double standard - a guy who is that big or even bigger can would tell a woman in a personal ad that "he's all muscle," but a woman that big will outright be called fat, be laughed at, made fun of, and largely ignored for the most part, especially when it comes to dating.
What he should have said was:
"I would prefer to date a model-esque woman, but they intimidate me so Ill go for a fat chick instead....as long as she's not too fat."
It's taken years for me to learn how to decipher "man"
Yep, that's pretty much it.
I really see that around here, though im sure its everywhere. I overheard a man weighing probably 350lbs telling a girl at the mall who probably weighed about 150 that she was too fat and he would never date a woman who wouldnt take better care of herself!! I was like... WTF??? Shes less than half your size!!! Men are idiots... well... someof them anywyas!
Okay, see, this is what I am talking about. That stupid, silly, double standard seems to have developed over the past 10-20 years or so about fat men and fat women. Why is it okay for him to weigh 350 pounds and not consider himself too fat, but he can tell a woman who is 150 pounds she's too fat?!!! GTFOOHWTBS!!!!!!
I liked your blog, until I hit this line: "I also don't know what ofinitial means...seems as though we don't have a real winner in the spelling department."
Now I think I'm in love!
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