I am in finals right now, and I am majorly stressed out! I can feel the stress in my entire body, but I think most of it has accumulated in the upper right portion of my back. I keep doing that thing where you try to contort your body so your back cracks and suddenly you get a moment of pleasure when everything pops into place, but it's just not happening...I NEED a massage.I used to live with this one particularly hilarious/crazy/lovable Russian Girl who constantly offered to give me massages, so of course, I let her. She would do this thing where she would stick her elbow in the knots in my back and the pain and pleasure were exquisite! It was like a schadenfreude back orgasm. But I haven't live with her in quite a while and I haven't had a back massage since then.
Yesterday during my 4 hour final I kept wanting to get up and ram something hard into the spot on my back that is bothering me, but that would have been insane. Today I decided I needed to get a massage, but I can't bring myself to so it. Why? No, it's not the money. NY's Chinatown is very accessible to me, and they offer cheap massages (not all of them with "happy endings!"), but I cannot bear the thought of taking my clothes off in front of someone right now. Especially in Chinatown, all of the masseurs are tiny Chinese women who have no problem talking shit about huge American who expect to get massages. Why do I care what they think? Why do I expect one of then to call me fat to my face?
A few months ago Nicole Kidman was on Oprah and she told Oprah that she had been a massage therapist in Australia. Oprah then asked her if big fat people ever came to her for massages, and what Nicole thought about that. Nicole said that, yes, big fat people did come to her for massages, and yes, she did in fact (only sometimes) think nasty thoughts about them as she gave them their massage.
Now, of course, Nicole Kidman isn't going to be the one massaging me, but I can't help but think that whoever does is going to be intimidated and disgusted by the size of my back. Lately I feel like I have gotten so fat that it is getting in the way of things I want to do in my everyday life. I am so stressed out!
On a side note and slightly related topic, here is what a professional, the student adviser from Massage magazine said about actual masseurs who are obese,
"Now, about obesity. If there is one deal-breaker in massage school, I’d have to say it’s obesity. I’ve done my best to work with obese students, and it rarely works out. Why? Because, as I’ve said, massage therapy is an athletic profession. If you come to it slightly out of shape, well, we can work with you and get you ready. But if you come to the profession out of shape and obese, it’s going to be tough on you.
For one thing, with the high ethical standards we have regarding steering clear of inappropriate client body contact, it is very difficult for an obese massage therapist not to lay part of her body on the client while working. Usually, with obese students, I have to constantly remind them that their bosom or belly is touching the client. It is embarrassing for the student, the instructor, the client, and fellow students.
Body mechanics can only do so much when oversized bosoms, bellies and arms make inappropriate contact with the body on the table.
If you are obese and seriously thinking of becoming a massage therapist, I will tell you the program will be tough for you, if not impossible. Before you start the program, why not use it as your incentive to get down to a healthier body weight? Then you can dive right in with strength and confidence."
Wow. I guess the moral for today is to try not to let your belly or boobs touch someone inappropriately today!
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81 comments:
That student advisor should be shot!
First you made me want a massage, and then you made me want to become a massage therapist just to prove that moron wrong. You are a powerful writer. Go get a massage. You deserve it.
I am so glad I found this site! I feel like that all the time. I can't even get a bikini wax because I have to hold my belly and it's embarassing. But this is no way to live. What are we going to do about it?
If you were in Ontario I would love to massage you. I hear I'm pretty good at it. Come to Ontario!
For the knots in your back, put some tennis balls in a tube sock (do they even call them that anymore?!) lay down on top of it, and slowly move around. They feel awful & wonderful at the same time. A single tennis ball under the foot works out the knots too.
What you say about body parts brushing the client... I am reminded of surprising recent events in my life.
I recently had sex with someone who had a pannus and gigantic boobs. We met on Craigslist and in subsequent emails she said she "weigh[ed] a few more pounds than I should". Her picture was grainy and only from the shoulders up, so... I could not really tell what I was getting into but hey - we hooked up anyway. I did not fuss about her weight. Point is, the body parts dragging across other body parts was really a jolt - I mean, I know we were having sex (thus in close proximity!) but I had never had sex with such an obese person before so it was all new feelings / skin on skin / techniques. For instance, even though she was on top and waaaay above me her boobs still dragged across me. She had to hold parts of herself back so that I could find her sex organs. This was new to me. And unusual. And maybe appropos of nothing.
Get your massage. I would totally do the elbow thing for you if I was around the corner. Word.
I had problems for years with being touched mostly because of worry about being judged. That massage school student advisor is terribly wrong. Obese people can certainly be massage therapists and might even be better massage therapists for obese clients since the whole point of massage is to relax and no one can relax if they are worried about what the massage therapist is thinking about them.
I totally know how very hard it is to find a good massage therapist when one is obese. I happen to be lucky and have a good friend who went to massage school. She is very fat friendly and I would recommend her to you if she lived anywhere near you. I would get regular massages from her if I lived near her. I used to get regular massages here in Michigan and I interviewed the prospective therapists before hiring them. One of the questions I asked was how they felt about fat people and I ended up with a very size positive massage therapist. That might work for you.
Good luck
I say "F" the little asian women. Not in a mean, cultural way, but in a way that you don't care what they think. It's not like you have to ever see them again! NYC is a big place.
I am fat. I am a massage therapist. People love me. And i got the best grades in my graduating class. And no one has ever complained about me touching them inappropriatly. Ever. And i have never thought mean things about another persons body. So take it from me, and get a massage.
I will never spend money to see another Nicole Kidman movie again. I wonder why Oprah even asked?
Good Lord, it never even occurred to me that size would be an issue when it came to massage! That instructor sounds like a looser, and comments like Kidman's (not to mention that Oprah, of all people, would even ask such a tacky question) just shows how little they're worth paying attention to.
My dh does shiatsu massage, though not professionally. He and I are both people of generous proportions, and the idea that he is unable to give massages or I am somehow not worth getting them because of our size is rediculous.
I'm utterly shocked at what that advisor said. I worked for a movement school that offered a massage certification program, and that was never an issue. the instructor was a heavy woman herself! Maybe that advisor just doesn't have the knowledge of how to teach folks with bodies that differ from hers.
I have noticed that the jobs for massage therapists at spas and the like are often harder for heavy/obese people to get, since those spas have a lot invested in fulfilling the "spend $ with us -> become stereotypically beautiful" promise, but that's only one potential career path for a MT. That woman's opinion is flawed.
As for the massage, the tennis balls are a great intermediate step. And ditto to calling/ emailing prospective masseuses beforehand to make sure that they're fine with bigger bodies. You deserve someone who will make you feel good (mentally and physically) AND someone who knows how to work with a heavy person's back. (Some of those slender MTs who the advisor is praising? Don't know jack about how to deal with muscles covered by fat.)
Of course, *I* haven't followed this advice, and keep hoping that I'll luck into something like the roomate situation. Sigh.
Oprah's got room to talk - she seems to be ballooning each and every day.
I'm a big girl. I've gotten wraps, massages and waxes *down there*.
Screw it - life it too short to worry about what everyone else thinks.
I'm just as self-conscious but you know what, I'm paying them for the service.
Wow. I guess the moral for today is to try not to let your belly or boobs touch someone inappropriately today!
Oops! Too late. Darn...
Laura, I'm jealous!!!
Lindsey, I know exactly how you feel. I, too, have been self-conscious when I have gone to get a massage. The first time I did, my father had given me a gift certificate. The next time I went was on my birthday. The masseuse was a throwback to the hippie movement and, although twig thin, treated me very well. We chatted about movies (we both love Alan Rickman and Gabriel Byrne). After the massage, I told her that it was my birthday present to me, since, as a large woman, I get very little human contact. She gave me a big hug and told me to come back any time. Of course, she accepted a job 1,000 miles away three weeks later. *sigh*
I support the comments above about tennis balls. However, as a long term back pain sufferer (arthritis) I find that a cricket ball provides a firmer surface to press back against. You really get that feeling of pleasure/pain which a tennis ball is too soft to impart.
Actually, come to think of it, is cricket an American sport? Go to any household here in Oz and you'll find a ball (plus pad,wicket and stumps ready for that after lunch game of backyard cricket) but I don't recall ever heard of an American cricket team.
Kittyrex
Cricket originated in the UK, but you lot in Oz enjoy it even more. Once when I was looking for something to do, I called the British Embassy asking about a Cricket league. They told me to call the Australian Embassy. I went to several matches.
1) Try one of the nail salons. They do massages with your clothes on.
(Drink lots of water if you do go to a spa that does the clothes-off full-body thing -- they are RIGHT about massages getting rid of body impurities. Ahem.)
2) If it were me (and I know it's not) I'd write a really snarky letter to the magazine AND that wench's professional board so that her prospective clients and supervisor can know exactly what kind of bigot she is, and she can deal with those repercussions. (I had to do it with a therapist -- to paraphrase Captain Picard, sometimes lines must be drawn.)
Well, Nicole Kidman is a total skank in my eyes now. You really deserve a massage, you should go get one soon.
I am clean, impeccably dressed, smell lovely and an excellent small talker while these things happen, so fucking be nice to me. I don't care if it's waxing my coochie, doing my hair, giving me a salt scrub or a pedicure, you're being paid to do this and I am not unpleasant, don't make me be.
I was at Spa Aria in New Orleans a little over a year ago and a patron had left comments in the guest book. She was unkind about her MT because she was heavy. No comment on the quality of the service she received, only that her MT was fat and she didn't like it. I tore the page out. Stupid cow.
The only people in American who seem to play cricket are international students from the Indian subcontinent!
I'm in NYC too (and a student too actually, feel free to email me at memichellese@yahoo.com, just say who you are in the subject line. I could definitely use more plus size shopping buddies!)
As far as massage training goes, my friend's friend is very, very obese and does amazing massages. He needed people to practice on to get certification and I was a lot more comfortable around him because of his size. Also, maybe I felt like the boundaries were different knowing him through someone else, but I didn't care of his belly was touching me possibly inappropriately - as long as I don't inappropriately have genitals in my face I don't care!
That said, I do get massages done by tiny Asian women fairly regularly. I've seen some other larger women going to this place Jay's Nails (you said that Chinatown is very accessible to you, so this probably would be too. It's on Broadway between 9th and 10th streets). I have no idea if they say things about me when I leave, but they do a good enough job that I'll deal with that possibility.
Good luck on finals!
I totally agree with Littlem, (though frankly, I usually agree with Littlem. The gal talks sense). I also agree with Anonymous who says this is no way to live and asks what are we going to do about it. Well, how's about this?
1) We need to have the guts to call people out on their bigotry no matter how uncomfortable it makes us feel –
and
2) We need to stop believing we are worth less and deserve less than people who weigh less than we do. We need to stop internalising other people's prejudice as truth.
It seems this student advisor inhabits some kind of mythical la-la land where only the slender give and receive massage. (And where, I've no no doubt, the only people she deems deserving are those who tweak a tendon during a sporting activity). It is socially irresponsible to allow people like this to hold positions of professional authority – least of all within a "caring profession". They ruin people's careers and damage their sense of self-worth. (Plus, if she discriminates against potential students in this way, one can only imagine how obnoxious she'd be towards a fat client).
I have had numerous types of massage during the course of my life - Swedish, biodynamic and shiatsu - and I see an osteopath fairly regularly because I am hyper mobile and have a dodgy upper back. My practitioners have come in both sexes and all shapes and sizes – while some osteopathy treatment can involve extremely close body contact. (As can a common-or-garden hug, for pity's sake). It's highly convenient for Ms Versagi that the US has become so very litigious - otherwise she would be unable to justify herdiscrimination with the "inappropriate body contact" argument.
Has anyone considered the possibility that a client actually MIGHT be uncomfortable getting a massage while a woman with large breasts (overweight or otherwise) had her breasts dragging all over the place?
I know that I personally would not like to get a massage and feel someone's tits resting on me the entire time or grazing me. It's distracting and not relaxing.
I do think that being overweight can make you unfit for a profession if it will make a negative difference for the client.
If you are really so overweight that you cannot keep your body parts from resting on the client, that's OBVIOUSLY going to make the experience uncomfortable. If you can prevent this from happening, that's fine with me.
But I don't think anyone here can honestly say they want to be a coffee table for someone else's fat or breasts while being massages.
I'm sure the issue would come up if a thin woman had enormous boob that kept touching or resting on the client.
Not everything is about fat hatred. Some things are simply about supply and demand. I doubt there's a big demand for fat resting on you while getting a massage.
I mean, it's a pretty ridiculous concern. But if it does happen (and only if it does, I wouldn't care how large you the MT was if she could prevent this from happening) it would certainly lower the quality of the massage.
I can see how being in shape might be a requirement for *some* types of massage, but a thin person who is out of shape could have just as much trouble in that regard. As for inappropriate touching, it seems that if you can control it (and I'd imagine most people can), then I don't see the problem.
Also, I think that would only apply to table-massages, what about those backwards chair massages?
The advisor's comments seem insensitive and bigoted, but what if that has been her experience with obese students. And what if she means really obese students, not just fat or somewhat overweight. I think that someone who was actually obese might have trouble with body contact.
Nicole Kidman is an idiot. I've always thought so.
I'm sure the issue would come up if a thin woman had enormous boob that kept touching or resting on the client.
I'm not so sure it would actually. (And I presume you meant boobs in the plural, though I'm highly amused by the idea of of one killer tit). I think many might be embarrassed to broach the issue on the basis of it being rather personal, whereas it's socially acceptable to complain about perceived problems around fat. The former might be considered something one cannot change, whereas the latter is generally regarded as something that can and should be.
Personally, I can't ever recall having anybody's breasts resting on any part of my anatomy, let alone "dragging all over the place", during a regular massage, (that's some florrid turn o' phrase you've got going on), though, as I mentioned earlier, some osteopathy techniques can involve a large degree of direct body contact, which would be unavoidable regardless of the size of practicioner or patient.
I also think there's a world of difference between a fleeting touch of someone's errant body part – which might occur during, for instance, helping a client turn over on the massage table – than serving as "a coffee table for someone else's fat or breasts" for the entire duration of a massage. Though, on the other hand, some folks might be willing to pay good money for that sort of thing ;-D
Seriously though, telling students they shouldn't be masseurs if they're fat smacks of overt discrimination to me. I knew a fellow Brit who taught Yoga in an LA health spa for a year, who was told a fat person wouldn't even be hired to answer the phone in such an establishment. As a conventionally slim person, she was baffled and angered by this. Considering fat people are constantly berated for not caring about their health, why turn away staff who could serve as positive role models for fat people who want to take an interest in their health? Turning the health industry into a closed shop is surely tantamount to self-sabotage.
Similarly, for some retiring fat folk who would dearly love a massage but feel intimidated by the prospect of a (possibly judgemental) slim masseuse, a fat one might present a more reassuring prospect. This might even constitute a unique selling point for some enterprising soul with the reqisite magic touch. It's not up to a student advisor to discourage them from following the profession.
buffpuff..
Of course that's what I meant. Please don't be that person that has to point out other people's typos. Or make references to their writing styles. It's a fucking blog, not a dissertation. And fat does "drag all over the place." That's precisely what it does when you're incredibly obese.
I have lived in the South and let me tell you that there are many people here who, if giving a massage, would literally have to rest their fat on the person they are leaning over.
It's called a pannus. It's gross, and it would be distracting if it were resting on me during a massage.
As I said, if this never happened, I would see no problem. But if it did, the fat person (or the thin woman with huge boobs) should be fired for not being able to give proper clientele. And why should we feel bad? We're paying *them* for an enjoyable experience, and if they can't give it to us, they shouldn't have a place within that field.
I agree that this probably wouldn't happen very often, but I have certainly seen people who would not be able to lean over someone without layers of fat spilling onto that person. Those people should not be massage therapists. It's incredibly and mindlessly PC to say that people who cannot perform their job functions should keep their job because it would otherwise be discrimination.
And the osteopathic techniques you're referring to? How is that even relevant if people aren't paying for that kind of massage. I'm talking about a regular massage. I've had many, and I know that a woman's breasts constantly bumping into me would not make the experience as comfortable as it should be.
As I've already said, I don't think this applies to all or a majority of fat people. But yes, there are some people who for one reason or another, should not be giving massages. Not being able to control your layers of fat is one of them. And again, I don't think anyone here would argue that they would like to get a massage and have someone rest their fat or breasts on them while giving it.
Terrific. Another fat-basher who'd rather rant about the hypothetical mounds of uncontrollable flesh which are out to squish her than address any of the other issues I've raised.
In answer to your question, I mentioned osteopathy because many osteopaths practice deep tissue work which is very similar to regular massage - and also because I wanted to point out that some forms of massage involve more body contact than others. Some shiatsu practitioners, for instance, stand on parts of their patients' anatomy.
No one thus far, (aside from the sleazeball who posted about his sexual encounter with someone ill-advised enough to shag him), has actually described an experience where they have been smothered in flesh as you describe. As I understand it, we were primarily discussing whether fat people should be discouraged from learning massage, not whether or not inept masseurs should be fired. This wretched student advisor is genuinely and actively discriminating against fat students – and I think that kind of behaviour should be discouraged.
Yes, some forms of massage involve more body contact. Again, so what? I'm not talking about those kinds of massages. (And an extremely fat person should definitely not be standing on anyone!) For the gazillionth time, I am talking about regular back massages that are offered at most spas.
This is not a discussion board. These are comments to one person's blog. There doesn't have to be any particular shape or direction of discussion. You can discuss whatever the hell you want. If I want to point out that no person in their right mind would want someone so heavy that this would happen massaging them, then that's the point I'll make.
And don't be so silly as to say that just because no one posting on this particular blog has had this happen to them, that it's not possible. There are so many people in this country who are so big that they could not lean over someone and refrain from touching them. You act like this is so ridiculous. Take a walk through Texas or Tennessee, where I've lived.
I've seen people whose waists hang down almost to their knees. Would I want them massaging me? Sure, if they didn't rest on me. Could they prevent this from happening? Possibly by defying gravity.
'
This woman has obviously had more experience in the massage business than you. Did you ever consider that this could actually be a common occurrence? Or do you so badly want to believe fat people are victims that you'll believe instead she pulled this out of her ass just to humiliate fat people because she just doesn't like them?
Since you ask, no I don't believe this likely to be a common occurence. If it was, we'd be discussing at least one actual case where a fat masseuse was facing disciplinary action for innapproriate body contact – rather than a prejudiced student advisor trying to dissuade fat people from taking up the profession. (She has, incidentally, no compunction in recommending short students to clamber all over the table, which one might argue, might also have the potential to unnerve some sensitive soul).
As previously stated, I've had many types of massage during the course of my life and have never experienced the coffee table effect personally. I have also, over the years, socialised with several trained Swedish masseurs and have never heard any such horror stories from them.
Getting down to brass tacks, I know fat people are discriminated against daily in a wide variety of ways, not least by the health and fitness industry. And this is by no means only directed towards the exceptionally fat. I find Ms Versagi's attitude – lose weight before taking up an athletic profession - condescending, judgmental and short-sighted. Someone is only a victim, in my view, if they stand for being treated as one. Personally I won't.
Incidentally, the kind of language you use to describe your own intense dislike of fat also serves a handy example of everyday discrimination. It's practically bordering on pornographic and I find it somewhat offensive. That's why I drew attention to it.
Personally, i think i'd quite enjoy it if a fat massues rested their belly on me whilst giving me a massage - would kind of be like a hug in one place and a massage in another at the same time, but then i'm probably biased as i think fat feels nice anyways.
I would much, much prefer a fat masseur or masseuse. Everybody's different.
Pornographic? You've got to be kidding me.
I don't find anything erotic about fat at all. I don't find anything erotic about women, either.
If "dragging all over the place" is an erotic term for you, I seriously pity you for your sex life.
Wow, this is interesting. I am a plus size girl, but not to the point of "defying gravity". I have a few extra curves, and I am on the heavy side, but not morbidly obese or anything. I have experienced several excellent back massages in the recent past, and let me tell you that none of my MT's were small women. One was approximately my size, and while she was doing deep tissue massage, not once did I experience any type of inappropriate contact from her. I also had theraputic massage after a car accident from a MT who was about 300 lbs, and she had a pannus, and I was laying down on the table and never had any contact from her at all, other than the actual massage. There is no reason for this insane fear of "fat dragging all over the place". It does not happen. If, perchance, it should ever happen to you, simply make your choice not to return to that MT. I doubt that you should ever experience such. Its a ridiculous notion.
Anonymous, there's a difference between pornography and eroticism and, frankly, I'd be rather more concerned about your own sex life if you can't differentiate between the two.
The reason I made the comment I did was because you seem to take what I can only describe as an obscene relish in the language you use to convey your dislike of fat - your coffee table anaolgy for a kick-off; not to mention your incessant talk of uncontrollable "layers of fat spilling" every which way. Pornography tends to reduce folk to little more than body parts – that's why many people feel it's degrading. There is indeed nothing remotely erotic about the phrase "dragging all over the place" - it is, however, in my view, every bit as degrading and dehumanizing as Craigslist Anonymous's account of his grubby little zipless fuck.
(And, just for the record, I'm het too, though quite what sexual preference has to do with anything in the context of this discussion, I'm not entirely sure).
Great title, Lindsey. Wait -- Emily? Oh well. Whichever one you are, I hear ya... I too would love a massage. I've never actually had one, but I hear they're great.
I would just never have my shirt off in front of anyone, in any context. Keeps me out of Dr's offices, massage studios, and off beaches.
Maybe we need a network of people who are willing to reciprocate with backrubs? Now there's a positive use for the Internet! Hell, I'd jump at the chance but I live a very long way from NY.
"schadenfreude back orgasm"... made me smile ;)
Your logic is that because I am reducing fat people to body parts and pornography also does this, my writing is therefore also pornographic? That reasoning is extremely flawed.
You can only describe my language as an "obscene relish" because you are presumptuous and obviously cannot describe things very well. How the hell would you presume to know my state of mind when writing these things. I take no relish in describing the way fat moves on people. I find the idea of a pannus hanging over me during a massage quite distasteful. And not because I am a "fat-basher" either. If you choose to be offended, be my guest. But trying to ascribe a certain stylistic technique to my writing, which is neither florid or even very colorful, is quite stupid in my opinion. Describing fat as a coffee table, to my mind, shows no sign of relish. The phrase "dragging all over the place" is a crude and casual phrase, and there's nothing unusually descriptive about it. It's interesting that you find it so. And why do you keep mentioning that you're offended? You can't be both abrasive and thin-skinned. Pick one or the other.
I indicated my sexual preference to let you know I have no unusual interest in giving pornographic accounts of these women's body, because there is no erotic interest on my part. And it'd be very hard to divorce eroticism from pornography. Pornography without an erotic component would probably not be considered pornography by most people. (And the account given may not be erotic to you, only because you don't find it erotic...remember that others might, and that you, a middle aged obese woman, certainly could not be considered the authority on what is considered erotic, since you probably never have been).
How old are you, by the way? You seem to have some very old-fashioned views. I'd guess you're definitely middle aged. Am I right?
Well, anonymous, if that is your real name, I just have to wonder why you're even here, on a fat acceptance blog, if you are a fat hater?
No one cares about your sexual preference, and I'm pretty concerned that you seem to care about buffpuff's sex life and age, as if any of that makes a difference to what she's saying. It's not much of a jump for you, I'm sure; you already obviously judge people based on their weight, so of course age and sexuality are, too. At least to you.
You're just hurling personal insults now with the "middle age" and "you probably never have been [erotic]" comments, as well as accusing her of being unable to write coherently and being too "stupid" to understand your intelligent prose... although I have to wonder just who the stupid one is, considering she clearly stated that there is "nothing remotely erotic" about what you said yet you're still arguing with her about that exact point.
buffpuff's being much kinder to you than you deserve in still even acknowledging your trollish existence.
"schadenfreude back orgasm" doesn't make sense..schadenfreude means getting pleasure from other's misfortune..
anyway a massage by a fat person might be nice. fat people are often more down to earth anyway. massages are personal and you have people brushing up against you all the time.
obese or not i will take any good massage i can get.
I'm definitely not a fat hater. I'm not skinny myself...but I do hate the assumption in the fat acceptance community that EVERYTHING is the fault of discrimination and fat itself can never be the cause of problems. Just like in the immigrant community,(which i belong to) a lot of problems are based on racism, when in fact it is the fault of the individual.
Buffpuff and I are really not arguing about the same thing. She is saying that the woman quoted has a prejudice and discriminatory attitude towards fat people because she is discourage them from entering a profession without first losing weight. This very well may be true, but what I am saying is that massage is this woman's area of expertise. To mention something like this, I'd bet she actually has seen it happen and it has been an issue, and she certainly has more experience than any of us. I mean, who would really just make something like this up just because they don't like fat people?
Please read my posts, since you clearly did not do so carefully enough. I never judged anyone based on sexuality or sexual preference. I love how things I never said or even implied are used in your argument against me. I'm also not arguing with her that there is anything erotic in my posts. She was the one that accused my writing of being pornograhic b/c it focused on body parts, using the insanely retarded logic that if writing focuses on body parts, it is therefore pornographic.
What about horror novels that describe body parts in great detail? Are those also pornographic? I am saying that pornography has an erotic component, and my writing did not so, because I have no erotic interest in the adipose layers of fat women.
If you are going to respond to me, don't embarrass yourself by not reading anything thoroughly.
Neither buffpuff nor I think my description of fat is particularly "intelligent." How much intelligence does it require to make a casual description of fat? Even a 5 year old can see that most really overweight people do have layers of fat that spill down. It was an informal description, which she decided to read to much into and be presumptuous enough to say I am taking "relish" in describing fat people's body parts. We can certainly tell from that strange accusation what's on her mind...
I think the point of the post was that "fat" people should not be massage therapsits.
I'm with laura, who posted in the midst of this ridiculous argument. My MT is a big lady, and there has never been any inappropriate contact, as she so aptly put it.
As for the instructor, she should take a step back from her statements and really think about them. She might be a professional, and she might have been doing massage for a long time, but that does not make her the ultimate expert. Not at all.
And I too, despise Nicole Kidman for her insensitive comments to Oprah.
Anonymous,
Firstly, I am neither stupid nor inarticulate so I'd thank you not to call me a schmuck. I'm a writer with a degree in graphic design. I'm also a lecturer with many years experience of public speaking – all of which means I'm pretty much about direct communication of one sort or another.
There are many ways to describe fat. One could, for example, describe it in an erotic fashion; (at least I could, and indeed have on occasion, though obviously not here – knowing what delicate sensibilities you have I wouldn't want to give you the dry heaves). You might couch your description of fat using clinical, scientific terms, comment on it in a kind, forgiving way or even a neutral, dispassionate manner. Or you can let rip in in a way which betokens intense revulsion.
I did not say the content of your writing was pornographic because it focused on body-parts. I said I felt the language you used had an almost salacious ring to it. I would also argue, since you brought it up, that you can take the erotic component out of pornography; for those who find porn crude, mechanical, one-dimensional and misogynistic it was never there in the first place. (And before you start casting aspertions on my sexuality again, I never said it didn't work for me). What you can't do, however, is take the sex away...because that's all there is to pornography.
What about horror novels that describe body parts in great detail? Are those also pornographic?
Well, I seem to recall Brett Easton Ellis's 'American Psycho' being critically lambasted for precisely that reason.
As to the issue of presumption, I would hazard a guess that you are very young, Anonymous, if you honestly believe that: a) sex is solely the province of the young and b) that anybody middle-aged got that way without having been young first. Tell me, are you planning on cashing in your chips and retirng to a convent when you hit 40, (or whatever you consider to be middle aged)? Believe it or not I'm quite personable and not obese; just fat. But if it pleases you to imagine me as the prissy, dried-up lovechild of Andrea Dworkin and Orson Welles, go right ahead. However, while we're in presumption mode – I'm not surprised to read that you're not skinny. Many people project their own self-hatred onto others.
Finally, just because sizism isn't always to blame for the fat individual's problems doesn't mean discrimination doesn't exist. As previously stated at some length, many people in the health and fitness industry do discriminate against fat people for no other grounds that they believe the way they look will serve as a disincentive to others to join their spa, gym, health centre etc. I don't consider myself thin-skinned – at least not about this particular issue. I consider myself observant and I believe in challenging prejudice and bigotry where I see it.
Uh...I don't hate myself or fat people. And just because I'm not skinny does not mean I'm fat. I like to think I'm normal, 5'4" and 140lbs. Some people might think I'm fat, that's true, and I could stand to lose a pound or 20, but I don't particularly see the point of doing that.
Again, just because you interpret my writing one way doesn't mean you're right. That only means that you have a problem with interpreting tone. There is nothing salacious, florid, or particularly purposeful about my descriptions. If you want to keep dwelling on this, again, it gives more insight to your state of mind than to mine.
I don't think you're some hideous being. I just noticed that your attitudes towards certain things are definitely that of someone later in life, and the fact that you choose to keep dwelling on this is in fact, a little creepy because of your advanced age.
Subtract the weirdo comments and this is a very interesting topic. I'm a big girl. I'm an MT. My boobs don't drag around on anyone, lol..but the thought does make me giggle a little bit. As a heavy MT I've developed techniques to make sure I'm not laying myself all over a client. Not a big deal at all. That advisor is a total tool. Pay no attention to her. Another thing I wanted to mention..when I'm working on someone even though I see their body with my eyes I don't see it in the way that you would objectively look at someone. I know that makes little sense..but when you've worked on so many bodies you just don't see for "imperfections" like a regular joe would.
Jen, I entirely get your drift regarding the way you view the body when you're working. It's rather like the way an artist views a body in the life-drawing studio. You're there to deal with anatomy rather than criticise it. On topic, I feel that the advisor should do likewise and leave her personal feelings towards the larger body outside her working environment.
Anonymous, I know you're really doing your damndest to get up my nose but you've just succeeded in making me laugh out loud. Just how old do you think I am for fucksake? I wouldn't even describe my mother as having reached "an advanced age"! I simply have to ask, since you haven't qualified it, just what it is about my attitude to certain things you feel marks me out as a contender for the retirement home?
i'd guess you were in your mid-forties or early fifties. That certainly is "advanced," as the life expectancy for women is around 78 or so, right?
I don't want to get into what exactly makes me feel this way because it's actually quite mean, so let's just say you might come off as a little "old-fashioned" and stick with that.
What?! Did you not have your usual bowl of Bitchy Flakes® for breakfast today, Anonymous? I'm quite disappointed! It would have been interesting to discover what you consider meaner than telling someone you've never clapped eyes on she has one foot in the grave and has never set a male pulse a-flutter in her life. (Not true, by the by).
Ah well, such is life on the way to sheltered housing, false teeth and my first Zimmer frame...
since you still haven't denied it, i bet i am right and you are fucking old. (even if you were supposedly laughing out loud, your silence says much). and your cutesy little rants give it away in that way that unattractive, old women try to be "hip".
Hey, Buff, I'll buy you high tea at the Old Fogie's Home cafeteria!
Anonymous, haven't you heard? Life begins at 40. Now bugger off you little pissant before I beat you with my walker.
Senility must be setting in; I forgot my commas. Make that "...bugger off, you little pissant, before I beat you with my walker."
I love how you have the confidence to insult someone while posting a picture in which you appear whalelike.
Cheers, Kate! Hey, just think, if the two of get together, I could turn Anonymous to stone with my hideous, wrinkly old face right before you squash her like a bug with that ample va-va-voom of yours!
Or maybe we could give treat her to that world famous massage technique, the Quadrupal-Breasted Coffee Table Special, ('cos that'd really float my prurient, pent up, geriatric, closet-Lesbian boat).
Buff, I think that we could find many better things and more entertaining to do with our time than torture a bigot.
What's the matter Anon? You can dish it out, but not take it? I have the confidence because I know who and what I am, and it's generally pretty great. Believe it or not, I was young and skinny, and even beautiful once. I didn't like being judged by my body alone any more when guys were lusting after me than I do when they want to harpoon me. I have amazing friends (some of whom would make your eyes goggle) who love me for who I am, not what I look like. I don't need the approval of anonymous strangers.
I don't know whether to hope that you never know what it's like to be marginalized on appearance alone or to hope that the fates would find puncturing that inflated sense of superiority of yours amusing.
buffpuff, I never accused you of being a lesbian. I love how you accuse me of "not sticking to the issues" and still you appear to not even be reading my posts.
Kate, why does it matter that you have gorgeous friends? So what? You're not gorgeous...and your gorgeous friends would just take all the attention away from you, so I don't know why you even mentioned that. You're rambling about how you love yourself etc...who are you trying to convince? You don't even know me and I obviously don't care.
You're not "dishing out" anything I can't take.
So far all you've done is sarcastically threaten me. Obviously I don't care because you're never going to find me, and if you did, I could easily outrun you lol.
Secondly, you really have nothing on me while posting that hideous, enormous picture. By the way , you're not ugly because you're fat. There are beautiful fat women out there. You just happen to be fat and ugly.
And buffpuff is still here, engaging in a petty internet argument with someone a third her age and probably half her weight.
I find it rather amusing the lengths the two of you are going to to defend yourselves. Obviously, you two care a great deal about the fact that society sees you both as subhuman pigs and whales. And being old is just the nail in the coffin, which is why the two of you have so many defense mechanisms.
And yes, I've been judged on my appearance.
Being 5'4" and 140lbs, there are a LOT of people who consider me fat. So it's not like I've never been judged on my appearance before. If and when I want to lose 20lbs, I will. Probably before I'm old, because being old and fat is never a good combination.
You posted a pic of yourself that you probably thought was attractive. Honey, no. You have nothing to do with the argument buffpuff and I are having. I know fatasses have to stick together, but the fact that you chime in only makes her look pathetic that she can't defend herself. And just the fact that I know what you look like and you have that horrible fat woman affliction where you don't even have a neck because it's buried in fat makes me wonder why you think you're the one "dishing it out."
Sweetie, if whole body parts of yours are disappearing, it's time to get off the computer, stop engaging in silly arguments, and get on the treadmill.
From One Anon to another Anon:
Take my advice, you bitch
FUCK OFF!!!!!!!!
I wasn't going to comment, but I have to stand up for the women you have decided to target with your vile and sickening posts....
You are a disgusting piece of crap and you should take your messed up retarded comments somewhere else. The more you write the more of a ridiculous scum bag you seem to turn into! And
BTW: You are garbage wrapped in skin. If I were you I would seek some counselling for the seeming mental condition you have.
Crawl back to the slimy hole you came from and
DON'T COME BACK!!!!
and FYI: I am hot, young and have an awsome body, so don't try to spew your venom on me, because I will outbitch you anyday.
As much as I hate to quote Shaw, he had it right when he said that youth is wasted on the young.
Anon 1:19, thanks for the assist, but I assure you, the other Anon isn't worth expending the energy of getting angry with.
To the other Anon: First of all, I didn't mean that I have gorgeous friends (although I do), I meant that even you would recognize some of their names. Their name recognition has nothing to do with my affection for them and my weight has nothing to do with their opinions of me.
Second, being 20 pounds overweight, even at 5'4", you have no idea what it is to be dismissed out of hand by strangers who judge you as morally and intellectually deficient, knowing nothing about you other than what you look like, and who have no freakin' idea what it's like to be you. Your comments about my neck are a case in point. Yes, I have a double chin, but my neck (in reality, if not in that picture) is perfectly obvious. Your supposition that I don't exercise merely proves my point that strangers make assumptions without having any clue as to the facts.
And, no, I don't think it's a flattering picture, you're right, I do look "whale like" in it. I chose it over many other more flattering (and more accurate) ones because I was having fun when it was taken, I like the memory that it invokes, and I like the top I'm wearing in it. So what? Even if it made me look a thousand times better than I do in real life, at least I have the balls to post it along with my name, something you have pointedly refrained from doing.
My original post to you was in no way "coming to BuffPuff's rescue." If you haven't figured out that she's the last person who needs rescuing, you're a bit dim. It was, however, supposed to point out the absurdity of considering her "old," and possibly to invoke a laugh. I gave your having a sense of humor the benefit of the doubt. You have my abject apologies; I won't make that mistake again.
Quite frankly, your venom amuses me considerably. It makes me grateful that I'm "old" and have developed more discriminating priorities than spewing vitriol from comfortable anonymity or basing my self-worth on the opinions of strangers who judge character based on facades. In spite of how it patently seems to you now, it won't be long before you're "old." I hope you remember this little exchange when you get there. I'm sure your opinion of me won't have changed a jot, but your perspective of what constitutes "old" may surprise you.
Your priorities still consist of engaging in petty arguments with anonymous internet strangers who don't even know you, don't they? Why did you put your fat mouth into an argument that didn't concern you if you're so mature and if you have your priorities straight?
And "old" doesn't equate with mature. You're trying to take the high road, but that doesn't change the fact that you're STILL HERE, arguing with a teenager. Yes, I admit I'm immature, but I'm at an age where I don't have to be exceptionally mature. Like you, I find this argument and sometimes fat people in general, funny. If your picture amuses me, then I'll comment on it. Will I grow out of this faze and realize that just because you're ugly, I shouldn't call you out on it? Probably in a few months or years. What's your excuse?
I love how people like you always accuse people who bash them that they do it because they somehow need to feel superior to other people. If I've learned anything from this blog, it's that fat people have the lowest self worth possible. Read the way these girls talk about themselves. I would never refer to myself in the hateful way fat people do. And don't give yourself too much credit...if I didn't have anything else going on in my life to derive self esteem from besides being less fat or less unattractive than you, I'd shoot myself, because it isn't hard to be less fat or less unattractive than you.
You say this is amusing for you? It amuses me, too. The fact that you're being so defensive (even reasoning with me as to the state of your fat neck) means that I am getting to you, otherwise why would you care enough to explain such a disgusting, petty thing? Have you considered that fat people are just funny? Society has and seems to agree with me.
And just because I don't find you funny does not mean I have no sense of humor. What pathetically idiotic logic. The fact is that you butted in a rather silly internet argument that had nothing to do with you, so don't expect to now pretend to take the high road and act like you have your priorities straight. Your fat ass is spending too much time on the computer and getting fatter. Get off your ass and go do something about it so that you won't appear as a whale, which you admit to, in ANY picture.
If I had no sense of humor, why would I even be reading this blog? I'm not a bad person for finding fat people funny...Most people in this society do, as well.Otherwise it wouldn't be so acceptable in a mainstream context. And this blog wouldn't be so popular, either.
Anon 1: Anyone can be "hot, young and have an awesome body" online. Prove it, bitch. Until you do, I'll assume you're a lardass or at least a few pounds overweight or you wouldn't be reading this blog. And FYI, telling someone you can "outbitch" them (nice that you make up words btw) is pathetic. You don't have to announce that you can, if you can. Just do it.
*snort* Yes, society is a terrific judge of human worth. That's why women couldn't vote in the US until 1920; that's why whites weren't legally allowed to marry non-whites until 1967; that's why Japanese Americans were put in concentration (excuse me "Relocation") camps on US soil during WWII; that's why heterosexuals are granted hundreds of rights denied to homosexuals. I could go on, but it would be a waste of time.
It's really rich that you deride the "hateful" way fat people talk about themselves when you've said much worse about us yourself.
Listen you 140 pound lump of dogshit
People like you are disgusting. You have no right talking about other people like that. I actually weigh less than you, despite you calling me a lardass, you don't even know what I look like. So before you make any more enemies here, fuck off, die, do whatever the hell you want.
I am gorgeous, and have been compared to women like Marilyn Monroe, Peta Wilson and Drew Barrymore. The fact that you are a teenager makes you no less a 140 pound lump of dogshit that you are. People like you make me want to vomit. You are an ugly, stinking pile of shit and you need to leave.
Why am I angry?? Because it is people like you that make the world an uglier place for us all to live. I will assume that you are a 140 pound lump of dogshit, and I will continue on that. I would rather be a lardass (I weigh a lot less than youBTW)
And I am considered a 10. So go take your filthy attitude and dump it on someone else.
...buffpuff is still here, engaging in a petty internet argument with someone a third her age and probably half her weight
...and yet with considerably less of a chance of imminently having a stroke. 'S'trewth, girl, you keep stoking that blazing furnace of rage you've got roaring away and you'll be going Scanners on us in no time! (It's an old black and white silent movie, dear – you probably wouldn't remember it).
Perhaps if you ask Father Christmas really nicely, he might bring you a punchbag this year!
Anonymous 3:11. Please don't have a stroke. S/he's certainly not worth it.
I can honestly say that I am not going to waste another word on this piece of crap. The fact that she/he/it is a teenager should tip me off to the ridiculous attitude. Kate and Buffpuff: I couldn't help but say something about this. This girl is probably an drug addict or a nut. I won't be wasting any more time on her. She is gross. I know you ladies can defend yourselves.
The fact is that people like her don't get very far in life, and I have decided to take pity on that pathetic little worm. She probably doesn't have friends, and has been bullied a lot or something. The fact that she thinks Im reading Fatty McBlog because Im fat...then, can't the same be said of her? She must be reading the blog because she is a lardass herself. Probably has 3 or 4 chins....not just two.
Anyhow, I am going to step out of this, because I know you ladies are intelligent enough to know bullshit when you see it. (she probably doesn't even make a 5 on the scale) Her attitude comes from the fact that she isn't hot herself, and it makes her feel good to pick on other people.
The fact that she finds fat people funny? 140 pounds is fat for a teen, especially at her height...lol! and she should look at her own face in the mirror before insulting others.
I sincerely pray for her soul because I guarantee she will be in prison by the time she reaches her 20s.
Yeah...but I'm not talkin about myself, am I? Therefore, it's not low self esteem, is it, genius?
Anyway, I'm not saying that society is always right. I'm pointing out that I'm obviously not the only one who thinks that fat people are funny, so maybe there's something to it? The collective opinions of society change. Fat people may not be funny 100 years from now. It may be discovered that there is something that prevents them from losing weight and it will be treated as a disability, and won't be funny. History corrects itself, but I'm talking about the present.
However, I'd bet that the issue of fat people will never be seen as a "past injustice" simply because you can't compare being fat to a gender, race, or sexual orientation. To be sure, there are genetic differences in body frame and size, but it's doubtful that anyone could make the argument that fatness, like you could for gender, race, and sexual orientation, is something someone is born to become.
You are wasting your time because fat is not anologous to any of the things you just mentioned. Here, on this very blog, read about what these girls talk about eating. Is overeating the same as being born black, or female, or gay? (Some people say gays "choose" to be that way, but at least you can make a case for the biological argument). That's not so with fatness.
How did you become so fat? Do you have PCOS? Or a slow metabolism due to yo-yo dieting or other factors? Are you naturally built bigger? Or did you just eat excessive calories that were stored as fat and did not burn these calories? Be honest.
And I'm not even going to go into the comparison with the relocation camps and the concentration camps. YOU. STUPID. FAT. UGLY. BITCH. UGH! How dare you even compare the two?
Anon,
Again, you can keep saying you look like whoever the hell you want, but we all know that's probably not the case. Yeah, I'm sure you just happen to be gorgeous in an argument when physical attraction is a point of contention. How convenient.
Also, the fact that you use "140lb" as an insult PROVES that you consider FAT BAD. haha, you just proved my case. If fat weren't disgusting and unsightly, why would you even use it to try to hurt me? BTW, I'm not insecure about my weight, because it would take 2 months max to lose 20lbs and I could if I wanted to, but I don't particularly see the point.
And yeah, I'm a drug addict, nut, bullied, have no friends etc. Despite the fact that none of these are true, if you want to believe that these are the only kinds of people who think that fat is gross, you are obviously living under a rock. Turn on your TV, and tell me if everyone who does is all these things you accuse me of. Normal people - the majority - do not find fat attractive.
Again, I read this blog I, like most people, find fat people funny. The girls who write this blog know that.
And 5'4" and 140lbs is overweight according to which standard? I'd have to put on at least a few pounds to be overweight. And I'm a size 4, so I'd also have to gain a few sizes to be considered overweight.
But the fact that you have such stringent standards as to who is overweight and who isn't, and that you're saying that I probably have 3 chins at this weight REALLY helps me out. Admit it, gorgeous, you find fat people gross, too.
But whatever, I'm going to be in jail soon anyway, because clearly, disliking fat people is a crime.
I can honestly say that disliking someone isn't a crime, but hatred is a crime. It won't be long before you land your ass in prison. You will tick off the wrong person, and I know exactly where you are headed.
I feel ashamed at myself for getting so angry over such a stupid reason, and I laugh at the fact that this 140 pound nitwit feels she needs to "gain" in order to be normal...hahahah! (put a 1 in front of that 4....you aren't fooling anyone) but that's not the reason Im angry.
Just because you are young doesn't give you the reason to pick on anyone else. I don't know you personally, but I know people like you and they all make me sick. I wish you luck in life, because you desperately need it. I pity the poor schmuck that ends up with you...that is if you can actually land one.
Lol! I am done here. I won't be returning because Im not going to waste another word with this creep.
concentration Noun 1. the strength of a solution; 2. the spatial property of being crowded together
Uh, thanks for the dictionary definition, but "concentration camp" has a different meaning, and you know it. It was used as a euphemism by Nazis to describe what they were doing by the Jews and it has taken on a different connotation meaning specifically a camp disguised as being for "concentrating" individuals but is secretly planned for extermination.
The term "concentration camp" applied to the Japanese-American situation is extremely idiotic. If you meant "concentration" only in its literal meaning, then doesn't the term relocation apply just as well? Because they certainly were relocated.
And, did you finish high school? Do you know the difference between denotation and connotation? Yes, the LITERAL meaning of concentration camp is what you copy/pasted off the internet, but that's not the social meaning of the word.
Anyway, this is way, way off topic.
Hatred isn't a crime, stupid bitch.
And where's the "outbitching" you promised me? You disappoint.
All you've done is rant about imaginary crimes and try to predict the future. If I do "tick off the wrong person," won't THEY end up in jail? You're such a moron.
I am going to end this argument because I don't want to waste another word on this little troll. I have allowed my anger to get the best of me, and being the adult, I shouldn't let a little troll get the best of me. She may laugh at fat people, but it is only because she probably cries every time she looks in the mirror. I lied about taking pity on her, but I do have to take responsibility for my own words here, and I am not proud of it. If she wishes to continue on with this, it is her decision.
If she wants to believe Im a moron, that's also her decision. We all know what she truly is. Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting and I point the blame on the people or person who raised her to be this way. It really is sad.
I pray that one day she wakes up and realizes that she needs a serious attitude change in order to succeed in this world.
Goodnight, All and I apologize in advance for anyone I may have offended.
Yeah, EVERYONE who laughs at fat people is hideously ugly or deformed.
TURN ON YOUR FUCKING TELEVISION!
And the fact that you keep reinforcing that I must be ugly and unsatisfied by my weight when I'm not even overweight by any standards proves my point exactly, that even you think fat is disgusting.
I mean come on, people. If you were totally OK with fat and didn't consider it a horrible thing, why would you be trying to hurt me with it?
And you're only making the women feel bad about themselves because if you say that I must cry at my height and weight, then they must be suicidal. So you've done the exact opposite of what you wanted to do.
And that's what I call moronic.
Bye! No one invited your ugly, fat mouth into this argument anyway, so there's no need to make a big production of leaving.
Ignore the little child troll. She's ugly in every way that matters, and she's obviously unloved and possibly abused.
Don't respond to her anymore; it's just another dumb teenager with a face full of zits and a soul full of angst. Plus, they don't know what the hell they're talking about at that age.
Ignore her; she'll either leave, or flame the hell of me, and call me names, and assume I'm fat, and that I'm old, blah, blah, blah. If she does, don't react. I'm not.
I mean, honestly, it's kind of embarrassing to realize we're arguing with a CHILD.
What the...?
So now, to make fun of fat people, you have to have been physically abused?!
You guys are really kidding yourselves.
(I'm not the original anon, and I'm fat myself, but I do think that making it seem like this girl has to be mentally ill, a criminal, or has been abused to make fun of fat people lulls us into a sense of false security about society's attitude towards us. I think the majority of "normal" American society does make fun of fat people, and this is what we need to combat.)
This is an immature teenager who finds fat people funny and bullying them amusing...but she is in the company of literally millions of other teens, adults, and elderly people. I doubt he/she is mentally ill. I doubt he/she is going to be in jail in a few years because of anything even remotely related to this, and I also doubt that he/she mocks fat people because he/she is "unloved" or has been abused.
I've been mocked all my life by people who are neither mentally ill, unsuccessful, or abuse victims.
Hell, my boss, whom I (used to) admire was overheard makin fat jokes...and she used to represent everything I wanted to achieve careerwise.
Let's not underestimate the enemies of the FA/SA movement (not that everyone here is part of that, but maybe buffpuff and kate are) and assume they are anomalies. They are not.
This is definitely a disease of mainstream society.
I can't believe no one cared that I slept with a woman!
I can't believe no one cared that I slept with a woman!
If you're the Craigslist guy who posted intimate details of a sexual encounter on the internet after some fat woman was kind/desperate/crazy enough, (delete as appropriate), to sleep with you; dispassionately assessing her body and the experience of being intimate with it, (to a bunch of other, mostly fat, women), as if she were little more than a slab of meat, I care. I think you're a crude, insensitive, ungentlemanly bucket of crap. Word.
(If on the other hand, you're somebody entirely different, please ignore the above).
Ha - no that wasn't me. Ew. I am just a girl who met another girl on Craigslist. She was a lovely person.
Phew! Glad to hear it, Anonymous. 'cos if that freak comes back I just might have to kneecap him. Hope you and your lovely girlie had a fab time!
We had a nice time, and I stress that she was a a great sport, but it was not a repeater. I think that's acceptable b/c we were both in it for no strings attached sex, and I think, if there's not enough attraction, why go back?
what, the therapist should be shot because she is telling the cold hard truth? I am one Fat chick and have come to the realization that life is not fair and yes, being fat does make you unable to(or makes it harder) to do certain activities. I think it is time that people like 8:00 realize that being fat does infact handycap us. Dont stop trying but be realistic.
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